clutchless downshifting

[ZX9R Man]

What do you think quick shifters do?
And auto blippers?

I'm not familiar with such hardware/software.

Your probably on about the latest machine technology that us mere mortals wouldn't even contemplate on our pre historic bikes.
Can you elaborate on this ?
You have to realise that some, maybe most, don't track or have the circle of friends of like minds to know about race gear for the road.
I certainly don't.
Willing to learn though.

[BrettZZR]

A little knowledge might be a dangerous thing here, but...

Bikes (certainly our 'pre-historic' ones, and I have no reason to think the new stuff is any different) have a 'crash-change' transmission. It simply wont swap until the speed differential and the torque being applied drops off. Certainly clutchless up shifting done correctly is as smooth as and will have no ill effects on the transmission. Down-shifts is harder to do well, and I'm not sure if it's harder still when really 'on it' or if it's easier then. I'm not a good enough rider to say.

(-8

[Wattie]

Quick shifter works by sending a signal from your gear lever when pressed/lifted to cut fuel and or spark to then engine to take the load off the transmission momentarily which allows the gear to change quickly.

Auto blipper is similar set up, except when you press/lift the gear lever it automatically blips the throttle a preset amount to take load off the transmission and allow it to change into the lower gear.

These can be set up with relatively simple timing software.
The auto blipper obviously requires a fly by wire throttle. Which most newer bikes have.

The actual hardware inside the gear box is no different.

[Wattie]

Watch "Ducati Panigale Auto Blip Down Shifting" on YouTube
Ducati Panigale Auto Blip Down Shifting: https://youtu.be/5MLyvSqdLmU

[tim]

beast

[ZX9R Man]

Yeah that is a cool video.

I never knew this auto blip system existed. Been out of the game for a while and I don't have any mates in the racing scene either.

So it changes gears automatically it seems by looking at the video and it also dowshifts when within a certain rev range. Pretty cool. Nice solid gear changes and the sound of that Duke !! Yes pleeeze !!

More gimmicky for street bikes but probably more useful in a race scenario when every hundredth of a second is needed.

IMHO I think this isn't needed for the street. Nice talking point, something different yes, but I wouldn't have it on a bike. Again my opinion.

Say something went wrong with the system and it decides to downshift whilst doing 200 give or take a few kays... No thank you.

I think that manufacturers are tipping too much technology into bikes. I'm talking strictly the electronic stuff, everything else is great, such as engineering improvements. Better suspension, engines, ABS brakes, structural integrity etc.. you know what I mean.

Do you guys actually use this system on the street ?

[tim]

He is shifting with his foot, it's not an automatic transmission.

[ZX9R Man]

Oh ok. I wasn't so sure cos he sat there statue like between runs and no particular flinching moves. Couldn't tell. I did wonder if he was in fact he was shifting himself, but the gear changes were so smooth and concise it led me to think otherwise.
It must have a smooooth shift.

Again. I don't know much about this.

Don't hate me.

[tim]

Not hating man, I didn't no much about it until this thread either. You can see his left leg/upper body flex slightly above the tank every time he changes. The bike has auto blip on down change and a quick shifter as Wattie explained (see below).

Obviously a lot of us will probably will never change gear like this. For each incremental increase in bike technology some people will embrace it, most will continue to ride what they have, and some will lament the loss of the "good old days" where bikes had tube tyres, or carbies, or no abs etc etc. Development is continuous, and a bit like the music you listened to when you were a teenager, some people favour the bike technology they learnt to ride with or have currently. Nothing wrong with that, it's human nature, but it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with moving ahead with new technology

Quick shifter works by sending a signal from your gear lever when pressed/lifted to cut fuel and or spark to then engine to take the load off the transmission momentarily which allows the gear to change quickly.

Auto blipper is similar set up, except when you press/lift the gear lever it automatically blips the throttle a preset amount to take load off the transmission and allow it to change into the lower gear.

These can be set up with relatively simple timing software.
The auto blipper obviously requires a fly by wire throttle. Which most newer bikes have.

The actual hardware inside the gear box is no different.

[Nelso]

Do you guys actually use this system on the street ?

Some do, but it's not really necessary on the street, which is why I ride a steel framed, twin shocked, outdated lump, on the road. On the track, it makes a big difference; a quick shifter and traction control can drop up to a couple of seconds a lap. It is a huge advantage having a more modern bike with these gizmo's on the track.

I do see the advantage of having traction control, anti lock brakes and slipper clutches on road bikes for the ham fisted noobs that can't ride but insist on riding 180HP weapons, though.

[ZX9R Man]

All valid points there gents.
I thank you all for the great insight.
Now I've learned another thing.

[bonester]

Clutch is there for a reason. I kind of reckon the manufacturers probably know best and it seems like a waste of money if you don't use it. If you can't manage the bike while you pull the clutch in and blip the throttle to down change you should probably be riding a scooter.

Twist of the wrist is written by a bunch of masturbation marketers who want to make you feel like a superbike racer. It's all a wank and really....on the road....who cares.

Cynical old fart signs off..........

I do see the advantage of having traction control, anti lock brakes and slipper clutches on road bikes for the ham fisted noobs that can't ride but insist on riding 180HP weapons, though.

Couldn't have said it better.

[Shifty]

I've owned something like 15 bikes and clutchless shifted up and down on the road on every one and I've never had a sump full of engine or transmission parts.

If you are at low rpm then the difference in shaft speed is minimal so it will snick in just like any normal shift. If you are at anything but low rpm, rocking the throttle ever-so-slightly will unload the gearset and - again - it will just drop back to the next gear no problems.

All of that said, I don't do clutchless downshifts when 'sport' riding (ie. high rpm or later braking) though. Firstly higher rpms amplify the risk of missing a gear, and secondly whatever the risk of missing a gear is or is not, the feeling is very unnerving at the best of times, much less when barrelling into a corner and having to hold the clutch in stroker-style while tipping it in.

[Juggy]

I have clutchless downshifted sometimes but was always unsure as to whether it was causing any damage..
Some actual answers would be great on this.
Any mechanics or those with solid info to share on this?

[Gosling1]

at low speeds it will be fine - its the high-speed stuff which can cause issues. Having a slipper clutch can help, but even with one of these - on the track I don't think that clutchless downshifts are a good idea ....