Government jobs

[mike-s]

Col - it all depends on the govt agency you end up working for. Some are good, others not so good. Try and get a look at the CA or employment agreement, before you decide.

Also depends on if you are talking State or Federal. I work for the federal and our conditions and pay seem to be better than state level. The CA's CDA's EA's (in short Agreements) for all Government branches are public record, so you should be able to look up conditions and expected salary well before you even apply. The only usual variation to this is if you go on to an AWA and then its open slather.

I heard that the federal government is trying to make federal awa's merge across to state, which would suck arse, i.e. "take this lesser package, or take this redundancy"
</pessimism>

[Plaz]

Col - it all depends on the govt agency you end up working for. Some are good, others not so good. Try and get a look at the CA or employment agreement, before you decide.

Also depends on if you are talking State or Federal. I work for the federal and our conditions and pay seem to be better than state level. The CA's CDA's EA's (in short Agreements) for all Government branches are public record, so you should be able to look up conditions and expected salary well before you even apply. The only usual variation to this is if you go on to an AWA and then its open slather.

I heard that the federal government is trying to make federal awa's merge across to state, which would suck arse, i.e. "take this lesser package, or take this redundancy"
</pessimism>

Hate to sound like one of those stupid Workplace relations ad's but thats BS Mike. AWA's are only valid between a single party and a specific employer.

[mike-s]

Hate to sound like one of those stupid Workplace relations ad's but thats BS Mike. AWA's are only valid between a single party and a specific employer.

False or not, its still hard not to be a cynic about the incumbent government.

[Neka79]

Hate to sound like one of those stupid Workplace relations ad's but thats BS Mike. AWA's are only valid between a single party and a specific employer.

False or not, its still hard not to be a cynic about the incumbent government.

mate its hard not to be a cynic about ANY government!!

[Shaman]

As someone who has always been employed in the private sector, I'd like to know what people think of working in government jobs.

How does it compare to private industries and what are the pros and cons?

I've worked for large private-sector corporations and as a contractor to government depts and, honestly, it beats the shit out of me what, if any, the differences are...

...both have dysfunctional systems, ill-thought-out and ignored-in-practice procedures, incompetent management, unmotivated staff, stillborn projects by the dozen, squandered resources by the truckload...

If you drive a desk at a large bank, insurance company, telecoms firm or IT services provider, your experience is pretty much what it'd be if you were, instead, working for a government department... anybody above and including the level of section head has no hope of getting anything done, anybody below that level simply doesn't care.

The flexible-working-hours thing is a myth... you're just as likely to have the option of working 7-3 or 11-7 in the private sector.
The lower-pay thing is patently arse-about... unless you're fresh out of school, earning mid-40's as a graden-variety cubicle pilot in a government department is routine. What's, say, a claims clerk at an insurance company earn?
Job security; also a myth... it's just as easy for a gov't dept to eliminate your position as it is for a company in the private sector. That's not even a recent development. When the current federal government first got in 11 years ago, one of the first things they did is cut the number of federal government department staff by half.

Ultimately, try this experiment... go spend a morning standing outside, say, Defence Plaza on Pitt St in the City and study the people streaming in for work. How old are they? How are the dressed? What are they carrying? What are the expressions on their faces? Then, the next morning, go do the same out the front of, say the Deutsche Bank building on Hunter St, and see if you can spot any differences. If you can't and it's the same mixture of marble-faced middle-aged men in suits, overdressed girlies in their early twenties and thirty-something out-of-shape men and women with vacant looks in their eyes heading in to do a day's attendance at both, how different can the work environment be?

After reading that post I think I want to commit suicide

I'd expect this from 'The Extremist', however

True enough, and good points, though - I'm contracted out to a government role atm and basically what everyone's said above is true: a whole bunch of people cruising through life with no real desire to achieve. It's reasonably good pay but private will always earn you more money if you're the sort of person who controls life as opposed to letting life control you.

Sure, you've got a secure job, but you'll get promoted (in terms of position) once every 10 years if you're lucky and sometimes it's annoying if you're constantly surrounded by people who are constantly depressed and angry... personally I'd prefer something a little more risky where you WORK for your money as opposed to just having it roll in each week and allowing yourself to get slack and complacent because "that task can be done tomorrow - I'm on salary"

I've also worked for both private and government and there were marked differences. I actually worked in one of these two sectors

If you want a GOOD government job:
http://www.defencejobs.gov.au

[I-K]

I've worked for large private-sector corporations and as a contractor to government depts and, honestly, it beats the shit out of me what, if any, the differences are...

...both have dysfunctional systems, ill-thought-out and ignored-in-practice procedures, incompetent management, unmotivated staff, stillborn projects by the dozen, squandered resources by the truckload...

If you drive a desk at a large bank, insurance company, telecoms firm or IT services provider, your experience is pretty much what it'd be if you were, instead, working for a government department... anybody above and including the level of section head has no hope of getting anything done, anybody below that level simply doesn't care.

After reading that post I think I want to commit suicide

Sounds like you need to HTFU...

True enough, and good points, though - I'm contracted out to a government role atm and basically what everyone's said above is true: a whole bunch of people cruising through life with no real desire to achieve.

I've been employed by Alcatel (before they became Alcatel-Lucent), and pimped out to the Commonwealth Bank, EDS, CSC, Unisys, Corporate Express, KAZ, Hewlett-Packard, Dell, McDonald's... fucked if I could detect any greater drive or pressure to achieve or deliver in those places than at the ACT government's IT arm, the Depts of Immigration, Education, Employment, Defence, the Federal Police, or either of the two unis I went to...

sometimes it's annoying if you're constantly surrounded by people who are constantly depressed and angry...

That's called being an inhabitant of planet Earth...

[Shaman]

That's called being an inhabitant of planet Earth...

True enough, unfortunately - however some places are better than others I can safely say that working in a bar was a much more positive place with people striving to be their best than my years of driving a desk hehe.

Back on-topic - it just depends what your priorities are and what you want out of life - from what I've seen, a government desk job will make some people happy but most people depressed. I'd say just go into a small, private enterprise with growth opportunity and really work for your money - it feels good I think the only time a job really becomes tiring is if you're not thinking and boredom takes you (or you're on your feet all day) It's a psychological principal (according to my g/f who's from smarter stock than one such as myself) that if you're constantly thinking, it makes you more active and gives you energy to keep going due to the way your mind works and how it creates neural pathways which allow you to perform tasks better. If you're constantly challenging yourself and making new pathways, you outgrow your role and this will be reflected in your pay

That got deep.

Sometimes duty calls and you gotta do what you gotta do to get through to something better; if a government role is your 'something better', then go for it! If not, plug away until you see the opportunity that is and grab it. If you don't enjoy what you do, it shows everywhere and you become miserable and people will begin to hate you and you will smell. I guess that means you turn French

If there's a role you'd enjoy within the government sector, just go for it! Either way, government or private, make connections - loyalties mean a lot within business unless you associate within dodgy circles right from the beginning...

[Mitch]

Well I have worked for small private COYs and Large Multi Nationals, and now work for the ATO (No, don't run and hide!). The ATO has had the best conditions and pay out of all the jobs I have had.

We get flexible working hours (except in the call centers). We just need to work 147hrs every 4 weeks.
At least 2 pay rises every year until you reach the top of your APS level, then it's just 1
4 weeks leave + 1 paid week shutdown from Xmas to New Year
Plus heaps of other stuff
AND the work isn't that difficult

If you are looking for a fed PS job look here http://www.apsjobs.gov.au

[Neka79]

(according to my g/f who's from smarter stock than one such as myself) that if you're constantly thinking, it makes you more active and gives you energy to keep going due to the way your mind works and how it creates neural pathways which allow you to perform tasks better. If you're constantly challenging yourself and making new pathways, you outgrow your role and this will be reflected in your pay

That got deep.

...

ummm yea...go back to talking about the bar please??