Billy the mighty bush mechanic

[smek]

As many of you know i've been having some problems with my bike not turning off when the key is moved to the off position.
well today it decided to not turn on when it's in the on position.

The biggest problem with this is that we were half way to mountain hwy (from my place) on burwood hwy.
so after fucking around for a bit by the side of the road, vince and my brother went back to my place to get a multimeter, a collection of tools and some contact cleaner.
while we were waiting we decided to rip off the tank and have a look at all the wiring. sure enough the main clump of wires is melted to the shithouse. many had no insulation and one i think had actually snapped.
So vince and kimon get back and the bike is in pieces by the side of the road.

By a stroke of luck we were actually over the road from bunnings so over I ran and bought some electrical tape and billy went to work repairing the wiring. Now it's good as new, though it may need a more permanent fix applied sometime in the near future.

So big thanks to bill for sorting my bike, and sorry to gayle and vince for not being able to take them on the planned ride! still we had fun. Especially trying to fish the washer that i'd dropped from between the engine and all the crap on top of it.
Probably one of the most eventfull and shortest rides i've ever been on.

Now I have a question. is there meant to be any heat shielding on the top of the engine to protect the wiring from the heat?

(I was gonna add some photo's but the option isn't available currently)

[Nanna10r]

Onya Bill, glad you got it sorted Nikos.
Cheers Brett

[Gosling1]

Glad to hear that thre Bush Mechanic is alive and well - but I think your problems are not related to heat from the motor.........

Motors don't get hot enough to melt wiring insulation. Exhausts do but not engine heads/blocks etc ( well, not as a *general* rule anyway...)

Melting insulation is usually caused by a fault somewhere - normally a short directly to earth, ie a split in the insulation, and the bare wires earth out against the frame/engine etc. Normally 'upstream' of the fuse, so no fuse blows, just wires melt bike stops have beer no problem

This can take some considerable time to get sorted - and if the bush mechanic has re-insulated all the wires under the tank, you can either (a) not touch anything, and keep riding till it happens again, or (b), pull it all to bits and replace every dodgy wire in the wiring harness.

Option B is preferable but expensive, option A is easier but a huge pain in the arse when it all melts again (maybe).........

Good Luck -

cheers
Dave

[smek]

Melting insulation is usually caused by a fault somewhere - normally a short directly to earth, ie a split in the insulation, and the bare wires earth out against the frame/engine etc. Normally 'upstream' of the fuse, so no fuse blows, just wires melt bike stops have beer no problem

So is the fault not necessarily in the area where the wires have melted?
In which case you just have to have a good look over the whole system and hope to notice something ?
You wouldn't think a new main harness would cost too much would you. bet thats not the case though.

[Gosling1]

So is the fault not necessarily in the area where the wires have melted?
In which case you just have to have a good look over the whole system and hope to notice something ?
You wouldn't think a new main harness would cost too much would you. bet thats not the case though.

The fault could be anywhere along the harness. As you have been having 'issues' with your ignition key, this is where I would concentrate on first - they are pricks of things with a mind of their own sometimes.....its sounds to me like this is where the problem might be starting........but the melting is only happening 'down the line' - under the tank - where the 12v may be 'split' into another couple of feeds, heat builds up here, and voila, you have a nice piece of melted off insulation, ripe for 'shorting' out on the frame etc....

I have reconstructed heaps of wiring looms, built my own for some bikes, and have yet to find a wiring problem that cannot be fixed....(but you need a lot of patience.) You cannot 'see' a wiring problem (except for large melted looms ), they need to be fully tested with a multimeter, and often with a seperate 12v source to test all wiring connections....

cheers

[smek]

The fault could be anywhere along the harness. As you have been having 'issues' with your ignition key, this is where I would concentrate on first -

I think the problem with the ignition was caused by the melted wires as it is now working properly. In the past it had been doing a number of things, most of the time it just wouldn't turn off. you could start the bike while the steering lock was on. it was basically hotwired. because of this I had to unplug the battery every time I parked the thing. Alternatively sometimes the electrics would be on, but it didn't seem like the coils were getting power. You couldn't start the bike, although the starter motor was ticking over. What seemed to stop this occuring was connecting the battery while the key was in the on position.
Occasionally it would go back to working properly, but wouldn't last long.
Today it just wouldn't turn on at all. I think the wire had broken completly and had seperated and nothing was getting power.

You cannot 'see' a wiring problem (except for large melted looms ), they need to be fully tested with a multimeter, and often with a seperate 12v source to test all wiring connections....

ahh ok, I was wondering whether it would be something visible or not.
Am I correct in thinking it's always going to melt in pretty much the same place?
Thanks for letting me pick your brains, don't have a lot of experience with electronics.

[Gosling1]

hmm, OK - heh no worries on picking the brains, thats what these forums are all about.

You have some serious issues with a dud harness. I would also be checking the inside of the kill switch - this can also cause all sorts of '*issues* including ones you have described.

It will *probably* melt again in the same place, but you can't always count on this. One of my old Zeds used to continually melt the main power wire on the battery side of the fuse box !! this was traced to a faulty voltage regulator, banging too much voltage into the battery, which in turn was going 'down the line' to its first point of resistance - the fuse box ( or more accurately, the soldered connection in the box with the fuse-holder....) it would just melt through !!! No obvious shorts anywhere, nothing else was wrong, fuse not blowing......drove us mad for a few hours that one did !!!

You also mentioned the magic words 'steering lock'........check really carefully around the area of the lower steering head, this is a great areas for causing *problems* with pinched / worn out wires, insulation etc.

cheers
Dave

[Nanna10r]

I think MothergooseDave has it covered with his top Bushcanican reply's I reckon the fault is in the loom, But i would add pull the ignition apart n clean it about 8 times. A fault in an ignition switch ate 2 CDI units on a mid 80's spewie i had. Became a very expensive boat anchor.
hth
cheers Brett

[Lucas]

Nikos did you say the fault was in the main plug/connector
if so a loose terminal on one of the main wires could generate enough heat to melt insulation seen on cars heaps
loose connection means heat
check the female connectors in the plug to make sure there tight
and if it wasnt next to the plug forget about what i said

BTW i hear Billy is good at tuning Golf Carts too

[the kid]

Great to see things back up and running , both Forum and Nikos's 6 .
I think the only problem with the electrics on ya bike Nikos is that the wiring loom had been rubbing in the area of the melted wires . That section had been folded around a metal bracket and the insulation on one or more wires had been worn through enough to start a bit of arcing and so warm things up in the surrounding wires .
I dont think you will have any more issues , just make those connections a bit more secure .
The theory about the engine heat damaging the wires is just crap , you never go fast enough for your motor to get that hot
Was a fun "ride" , nothing like good company working at a problem together , I had a fun day with you guys . Thanks

[smek]

I think the only problem with the electrics on ya bike Nikos is that the wiring loom had been rubbing in the area of the melted wires . That section had been folded around a metal bracket and the insulation on one or more wires had been worn through enough to start a bit of arcing and so warm things up in the surrounding wires .

Ahh thats good news. lucky someone knew what was going on eh

The theory about the engine heat damaging the wires is just crap , you never go fast enough for your motor to get that hot

hahaha the engine heat was just my uninformed assumption.

[Gosling1]

Good work fellahs, Billy's on the ball, did you move the wires away from the bracket ?? Hopefully you should be OK from here on Nikos, if you get a chance on a rainy day, get Billy over with a soldering iron and some heatshrink, and do a number on those connections.....this should fix the problem for good.

Can't hurt to give the ignition switch a good tub with some wizards piss, and also the kill switch while your at it.

cheers
Dave

[mrmina]

billy the bush mechanic and stace the bush bumpkin

[diesel]

hey smek,
bring her over to my joint, i've got everything there.

and dave,
is the kill switch a common problem on all bikes??
is it worth servicing it now rather than when it stops working?

[I-K]

is the kill switch a common problem on all bikes??
is it worth servicing it now rather than when it stops working?

A better idea is to not touch it; turn the ignition on and off with the key, not the killswitch.

Btw, anyone else find it worth a giggle that a guy going by the name of Lucas is dropping wisdom on the subject of bike electrics?