Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

From this mornings paper. A bit of an old debate this one. Very tragic and you can understand the mothers point of view. I'm sure dealers have a lot to answer for when they sell bikes to anyone, but surely the bod on the bike wears the ultimate responsibility, not the bloke that sold it.

Ban these bikes

By HEATH ASTON

September 05, 2005

A DURAL mother is calling for a ban on the sale of high-powered motorcycles to P-platers after her son died riding a 600cc bike.

Caine Allen, 20, was killed instantly last November when he lost control of his Honda CBR, doing 120km/h in a 60km/h zone.

Just 36 hours earlier he had ridden out of a Parramatta motorcycle dealership on the $16,000 race-bred sportsbike, considered too powerful by the law for a provisional licence-holder like him.

There is no legislation that prevents motorcycle dealers from selling the most powerful bikes to P-platers.

Caine's mother, Therese Allen, is now pushing the State Government for a ban.

Caine bought his bike from Parramatta's Action Motorcycles.

Action sales manager Mauro Vankulenberg said it was company policy to "definitely try not to" sell high-powered bikes to P-platers.

Asked why Action sold Caine the bike, Mr Vankulenberg told The Daily Telegraph: "He went and organised the money and bought the bike. Whether he bought it from us or up the road, he wanted the bike."

Mr Vankulenberg said Action supported Ms Allen's call, even though the regulation would be hard to enforce because some unlicensed riders buy bikes to race.

According to Ms Allen, Caine knew he was doing the wrong thing when he bought the bullet-like Honda, saying, "he was no angel".

But a ban on the sale of the high-powered motorcycle may have prevented his death, she said.

Ms Allen is also concerned the RTA allowed Caine to register the motorcycle.

But the RTA said it had no way of preventing the situation because thousands of vehicles had multiple owners.

Ms Allan said: "There must be a way to make sure that other families don't have to live through a loss like we're doing."

The Government recently bowed to community pressure and banned P-platers from driving a range of high-powered cars.

A spokeswoman for Roads Minister Joe Tripodi said Mr Tripodi would meet Ms Allen on September 19.


Motorcycle safety group Stay Upright said it would support tougher legislation on dealers.

Sorry for her loss, it would be terrible to lose a kid.

But if she can't control her own kid, why does society have to?

If it's already illegal to ride that bike what more can you do? Shoot offenders? Doesn't that end up with the same result?

For the sake of her kid she should have actually disciplined him HERSELF. Not just turned a blind eye with a 'boys will be boys' line of thinking.

Then there's the other line of thought.....Why are you doing 120km/hr in a 60 zone? There's a law against that somewhere, I'm sure.

up2nogood wrote:But if she can't control her own kid, why does society have to?

He wasnt a kid. If I went out today and got myself a 600, what are my parents going to do. Im a adult.
If you were on your Ps, would you listen to your parents telling you not to?? It doesnt matter what age you are.
what im saying is, he was an adult and therefore it was his OWN responsibility to look after himself.
Not the government and not his parents.

You can also do 120kmh in a 60 zone on a 250...

Does she think her son wouldn't have done the same on a smaller bike?

Ah, she's just looking for someone to blame.

Reckon I'd still be looking closer to home rather than ringing up some journo and making it the gov or dealers fault.

Crikey, could it actually be the kids fault??

Regardless of whether a 16 year old reckons they're an adult or not, they're still a minor. Anyway, this isn't an age debate. Poor bugger's become another statistic and a mother's got a new crusade to keep her occupied and prevent her blaming herself.

up2nogood wrote:Crikey, could it actually be the kids fault??

No mate, it couldn't be. Just ask the parents.

I particuarly like the way the journo chucks in the "I know he wasn't an angel" bit... It's almost like she wants to say "I know he was a dickhead and he was the one twisting the throttle but I don't want to blame him, and it certainly wasn't our fault as the parents!"

eswen wrote:

up2nogood wrote:But if she can't control her own kid, why does society have to?

He wasnt a kid. <snip>

Yes he was. But that's beside the point. He could have got to 120 in a 60 zone on a 250, easily. High powered bikes don't kill people, being a cockhead kills cockheads.

EDIT: Sorry red_dave, didn't notice. Brilliant minds, and all that jazz...

thats no good.

but i reckon for someone my size a 250 is more dangerous.

seraph wrote:

eswen wrote:

up2nogood wrote:But if she can't control her own kid, why does society have to?

He wasnt a kid. <snip>

Yes he was. But that's beside the point. He could have got to 120 in a 60 zone on a 250, easily. High powered bikes don't kill people, being a cockhead kills cockheads.

He wasnt, legally, a kid. at 20, he is responsible for his own actions. and thats what im saying, he was being stupid. No one told him to do it, and he was old enough to make that decision himself.

Maybe we ought to start a petition to have corners and t intersections outlawed, as that is where most bikers come to grief.

Or perhaps when a 20 year old decides to do something like this, they are the ones with the responsibility.

As an addage, I purchased a 750 Genesis 1 week after passing my test, owned it for 7 years and never dropped it once.

Little more than natural selection playing its part, a shame the dealer is being badmouthed because of it.

Public Service Announcment:

The rider who was killed was not 16 years old. He was 20 years old.

The debate is about whether dealers should be restricted from selling non P-plater legal bikes to P-platers. A side debate about whether or not the RTA should be registering non P-plater legal bikes to P-platers is also mentioned in the article.

My opinion: The 20 year old knew he wasn't legally allowed to ride this bike. He bought it, registered and rode it. One day he sped on it. That was the same day he got in a crash and died. I don't think making it illegal to sell a bike to an appropriately licenced person would change anything.

Well we didnt get the full crash details either but i think they should make advanced training compulsory.....for all drivers but especially for P platers after 6 months of driving/riding.

So many times have i seen cars run up the ass of other cars when the lane either side of the car that got hit up the rear was empty always makes me wonder why did they do that .... because they whernt trained to just change lanes.

Red lights ......how many people activly look to see that all the trafic is actually stopping before charging off from the lights.

physics...2 peices of matter cant ocupy the same peice of space at one time... so why do cars move like loonatics on a friday afternoon at 430pm .....you need a certain amount of room to stop.

and i believe that doing a defensive driving course is good if you want to learn a heap of acronyms but if you make them jam on the brakes while weaving in and out of wiches hats there more likely to learn road skills.

Ohh yea same goes for bikes too dont asume they saw you even if they looked right at you some people just see shapes at 30 feet.!!!

enough of the rant i dont believe its the speed that kills ya its being a moron that does and that young fella didnt last long enough to learn a important lesson....ride it like a 50cc scooter in trafic and its not dangerous.

Yeah same old 'I'm not responsible for my own actions'

Did I misread that? I thought he was 16, but now I'm too lazy to go back and check... He made a foolish choice, amongst myriad foolish choices, and it killed him. The relevant point here is whether legislation will stop informed people (like he was) making stupid choices. -J.