Serious Topic...Suing fellow bikers

[Smitty]

read an interesting magazine article today about organised motorcycle rides and the law....
and how it unclear that if a biker has an accident (however caused)
whether they can sue the club, ride organiser (tail end charlie, corner marker etc) for damages loss of income etc

my thoughts are ...
that if you are licenced to ride a bike ( and provided you
do not negligently or through your actions cause injury)
you are responsible for your own actions!

in other words
if you go in too hot and lose it and hurt yourself
the TAC covers somethings $ wise, the pain and anguish are your own responsibility
(& if the bike is insured, it is up to you to claim)

we (KSRC) have rides, social rides , (dis)organized rides, fast rides, slow cruises, whatever
and I hope no one gets hurt but if they do, they do not think to sue someone (anyone.. ) here

anyone like to comment...?
Jason ..do you have a (legal, police ) viewpoint?

cheers

[Neka79]

i kno Bikers Anon became incorporated, so they could get insurance or sum
such thing..they had to have a comitee, and paying members...they charged
every1 $1 to join...now they cant b sued...
Neka
2000 CBR 929RR
1988 KDX200 thrasher
1996 VS SERIES 2 UTE
"dont hate me cos im sexy, hate me cos ur mrs thinks im sexy"



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[Nanna10r]

I've had a fair bit to do with this stuff & this is what i've discovered.

They would of incorporated to get protection but in fact it makes it more likey to be sued. Its a much easier mark to hit. Narfies example above means that the Coroporation can be sued (their insurance company) but not the individual members(thats the thinking), BUT if the arse hole sueing gets a good enough lawyer the Committee members can still be sued for their personal assets. Especially for grey areas, like a BBQ get togethers in someones home. Insuarnce for any non profit org is an absolute bitch to get & has in some instances trippled cost since 9/11.
From my uderstanding Ksrc Admin are pretty safe from personal litigation but if your doing maps for ride days dont put any letterheads or stickers on them as then it becomes a much more formalised event which is easier to prove accountability for.
Cheers Brett

[Blackzxr]

This is a social club, who organises get togethers and rides. YOU WILL PARTAKE AT YOUR OWN RISK. This shite, shits me...........

[Felix]

An abseiling club here disbanded - they got rid of the formalities and became just a group of friends that went abseiling. The reason being insurance was too much for the few people that did it, and without being a formalised, legally recognised club there is less chance of anyone being able to successfully sue anyone, as they all become equals ie everyone is only there because they want to be and has the necessary skills to participate. It also made gaining access to the national parks much easier, as they didn't have to prove they had the relevant insurance.

You can pretty much sue anyone for anything, but whether you'll be successful or not is another thing. I often think the 'problem' of suing is made to appear worse than the reality. Media is happy to report the most bizarre incidents.

One thing I should mention is that I read somewhere that the problem is much worse in the US because of a flaw in the system - you don't have to prove you actually suffered a loss, whereas here you have to prove you suffered as a result of something someone else did. But the scourge of 'no win - no fee' lawyers is still around, and their nuisance value can be quite enough...

[Neka79]

actually rob..i have an alcohol problem caused by u bunch at the gp..u got
me in2a nasty habit..think i mite go c a solicitor....
Neka
2000 CBR 929RR
1988 KDX200 thrasher
1996 VS SERIES 2 UTE
"dont hate me cos im sexy, hate me cos ur mrs thinks im sexy"



Post generated using Mail 2 Forum (http://m2f.sourceforge.net)

[aardvark]

Jason ..do you have a (legal, police ) viewpoint?
cheers

Err, no comment.

But, I will say this from MY viewpoint. KSRC is a social club, we provide a place for FRIENDS to chat, organise rides etc etc. We don't organise rides as a club.

What you guys decide to talk about in these forums is up to you. If you want to organise a ride with your mates, you go for it.

Is Telstra going to be sued because you SMS'd your buddies and organised a ride? I think not.

KSRC does not condone riding fast or riding like an idiot on the street. How you chose to ride when you are by yourself, or when you are with friends who also happen to use the KSRC forums is up to you. You are the one twisting the throttle. You are the one that knows where the limits of your abilities lie.

Further, people post reports on here about how they rode their bike on recent outings. Some of it's true, some of it's "I caught a fish, it was this big, but it got away." Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story!

If there are people here that think they might want to sue KSRC, it's admins or it's users in the future, for an accident they might have, then we don't want these people as members. You wouldn't do it to your friends and that's all we are trying to be.

(Off soapbox)

[Barrabob]

I cant see how you could sue the board owner or the administraters because you rode your pride and joy off the edge of a cliff however there is scope for a lawyer doing it on your loved ones behalf if someone in some way behaved negligantly but surely the lawyers would go looking at third party insurance on the negligant parties vehicle.

What i am trying to say is if you have a road accident regardless of if its a prime mover or another bike and you arent at fault you useally go after the other parties ctp and or comprehensive insurance but i cant see how the board owner or admins are in anyway responsible.

Of course common courtesy would sugest that you leave your fellow forum members alone....not much of that comon courtesy left in the world though.

[Musty]

a simple rundown, sueing a club for example say the MRAA for having an accident on one of there organised rides can and does happen. We used to have insurance just for that but the idiots in the Vic MRAA don't seem to have inteligence about that now and have failed.
Sueing KSRC yes it can happen but chances are it will fail before going anywhere. You will find many clubs now use net groups to organise protests, rallies and rides as the net group cannot be taken to court as easily as a formed Association can be.
That bit about we dont condone blah blah blah means jack shyte to!

[javaman]

Mate... I read in Canada a thief sued the owner of the house he broke into, apparently he slipped and broke his bone or something -- and won. Very stupid . Hope does not happen here.... One should ride his own ride and risks !!

[sp500]

At the end the day no one wants to accept there own actions so just sue someone else, greed comes to mind.

[Bluefly]

What it really comes down to is the decency of the people involved. I don't know of anyone I've met and spoken to through KSRC that would even contemplate suing fellow members/admins. I think it requires a great degree of stupidity and ignorance to blame others for our own undertakings and their consequences - and I don't know of anyone in our club who falls into that category. One particular ex-member who had the potential to cause dramas and take a few other riders out on a group ride has kindly left and gone to the dark side (Suzuki.....) and those of us left are, as a whole, genuinely decent people.

Anyone who wasn't of a similar mind-set to those members already regularly contributing would most likely hang around for a little while, then go and find another forum they felt more at home on.

As the saying sort of goes: you can't choose your relatives, but you can choose your friends. Hopefully that means we're immune to this kind of thing.

[Musty]

Mate... I read in Canada a thief sued the owner of the house he broke into, apparently he slipped and broke his bone or something -- and won. Very stupid . Hope does not happen here.... One should ride his own ride and risks !!

no difference between Canada and Aust on this one, if a thief breaks into your house and hurts himself your a gonna. So as i say make sure he leaves in real pain

[red_dave]

It's my experience that most lawyers will give anything a go so they can look good in front of their peers at the regular lawyer get-togethers...

My brother had an accident a few years back when he was riding down a service road in Helensvale, at night, and spotted a traffic island without any signs. He lay it over and ended up breaking his knee. He went to one of the "No Win - No Fee" joints and sued the Gold Coast Counicil and won. $30000 payout of which he ended up with $6000...

It's only going to get worse and we are going to end up paying for it (CTP, insurance, health cover etc)

[Aussie Ninja]

Mate... I read in Canada a thief sued the owner of the house he broke into, apparently he slipped and broke his bone or something -- and won. Very stupid . Hope does not happen here.... One should ride his own ride and risks !!

no difference between Canada and Aust on this one, if a thief breaks into your house and hurts himself your a gonna. So as i say make sure he leaves in real pain

A police mate of my dads once told him, some years ago now, If you are faced with a home invader and you have a gun yell stop then shoot him dead. Then yell stop don't come any closer and put one into the roof then yell stop and put a second one in the roof.