up VS down (HILL!)

also, can we get a "roadcraft" section on this here website thing-a-ma-jig, for posting/talking-about tips tricks of the riding trade?????

anyway, back to the question at hand......

I noticed yesterday (as well as many times before, and never had anyone to ask) while going up-N-down the er, uh, "up&down race track" as Pontikat calls it, that i could go up it nice and quick, but down is another story and very slow and cautious i had to be.....
so, what do you guys do to get around a place (say like laguna seca!! ) that has massive downhill gradients?? i still "try" to get all the braking done before the turns and everything, but i just find the mind not willing to do the same speed down as up!!!

does this all make sence??? whaddya think??? (forgot to ask eveyone in person yesterday )

http://motorcyclistonline.com/howto/downhill/

have a look at this!! answered my own question!! but still would like to hear your thoughts KSRC!!

I have the same thing happening...overcoming it slowly.

I read through some article... go to this page and look for it:

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/

I think Tanya posted this link once before.

I found I had a tendency to look straight ahead, and down, which made the hills seem steeper, and the road twistier...I am getting better though. I also used to over brake, which isn't a good thing as I ride so slow anyway

Very good question Yankee. We used to train on a range which had a slope and students would often ask the same thing when doing cornering.

The only difference really is that in an uphill it's probably easier to maintain smooth throttle as you have to to keep the bike moving. Other than that there really should be no difference in approach.

The best approach is to get set before the corner. ie position speed and gear before you start leaning in to the corner.

Where you look will make the most difference. Make sure your head is up and looking where you want the bike to go. Look as far through the corner as you possibly can.

To initiate the lean countersteer, point your inside shoulder to the exit of the turn (which you'll notice will take care of the countersteering)and then relax your inside arm. Mid corner you should be able to flap your inside arm around (don't do it though). This will take pressure off the bar and you will feel the steering turn in a little (don't fight it)

Keep your throttle smooth and roll it on to pick the bike up on the exit.

Take it easy and concentrate on smooth rather than fast and it will all come together. Most importantly ride at whatever pace you feel comfortable with. If that means you get to turn around and do a corner again because you feel you could've gone through quicker safely then do it.

Cheers

Last edited by Glen on Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Hey Yankee, I found out using a lower gear helps as it creates the "drag" and thus traction ... Not to mention the more noise

I used to just chuck it down a couple of gears and drag the back brake to the apex and would probably be on the throttle before i let go of the brake, bigger bike has a heap more power so you cant really do the just hold it flat and keep the corner speed up thing.

try dragging the back brake around a couple of corners anyway, I just let the trafic go by if i am not happy with it.

My problem with downhill at the up-n-down is that the left handers on the way down are almost blind. I can't make myself commit to a corner I can't see through. Hence, my speed is slower through those corners than on the way up, which has much better visibility.

Having said that, I REALLY enjoy downhill right handers ...

try dragging the back brake around a couple of corners anyway, I just let the trafic go by if i am not happy with it.

Yep this is what I do as well, even do it uphill sometimes if I'm in the mood (or going too fast ).

....The best approach is to get set before the corner. ie position speed and gear before you start leaning in to the corner.

once explained to me as....
'the go in slower and come out faster' cornering technique...

As far as I can tell, there are two fears people have with going downhill.

1) Losing the front
2) Going over the edge

When going down hill riders have a tendancy to do one of two things:

1) Look at the road directly in front of the front wheel, wondering what it's going to slip on.
2) Look too far ahead so that they are admiring the scenery and the cliffs.

You need to look ahead, far enough to see where you are going and plan for the upcoming corners/road, but not so far ahead that you take in the view normally associated with downhill sections.

I hate to bring this up again (No, really, I do!), but when I rode the Nurburgring I was suprised by just how hilly it is. There is literally no run off at the track and any lack of concentration can lead to injury or death. The first half of the day had me struggling on some of the downhill sections, and the best advice I got was:

Don't look at the scenery, loosen up on the bars, ride a gear lower than you normally do to help utilise engine braking. Worked a treat.

I can't make myself commit to a corner I can't see through. Hence, my speed is slower through those corners than on the way up, which has much better visibility.

That's very sensible for riding on public roads. I have gone (in the car) through sections that I know very well, doing 80+ through some very sensibly 40-50 Advisory Posted sections, only to have to stand on the brakes because it is pot hole filling season...or there is a cow roaming loose....or a dead roo in the middle of my lane...a tree across the road...tourist taking photos of the view right dead bang in the middle of the lane...some nut on a pushy... . . . . .

one thing that has not been mentioned is....

on the downhill runs as the rider starts to brake
is a tendency for the rider to move slightly forward or for
the rider to start taking more weight than usual on their wrists
when braking

this tends to lead to slightly (only very slightly) more actual
compression of the front forks, but in the riders mind
a large compression of the front forks (the weight transfer
gives that impression)

The reverse happens UP a hill
so
to overcome this, slowly sit up as you start to brake
and take more weight with the legs, not the arms


hth

cheers

Read that article last time it was up and using the tips in it worked a treat. By conciously gripping the tank with my legs and using my upper body muscles to take the weight of my wrist I found myself much more comfortable on a twisty down hill run.

i agree with smitty up hill u are on the gas and the front is unloaded and on a downhill run all the weight is compressing the sus more

so i use the tip i got from andy rides the R1 think he is on here 2
which was to move ya arse back half a seat and now i find going down hills more enjoyable and think i go better downhill than up

We should always be gripping the tank though, not just downhill, even with a knee down you still need a leg holding onto the tank. If you find gripping on the downhills helps out, it'll probably make a big difference on the flat or uphill.

Working on deep entry helps too, enter in wide and 'slow' until you can see a comfortable exit then accelerate out.

If I end up too close to the inside of a steep & tight downhill corner (ie some of galston gorge) I find it very difficult to break the "inside is safe" fixation, with the barrier there and all. That's something I'm working on.
But if set up nicely I have no problem with inside is safe syndrome, dang.