Throttle stuck operator error

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Throttle stuck operator error

Postby paulsj » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:35 pm

Hey guys had my ZX9R out a broadford yesterday and had a little incident heading into crash corner end of the back straight. I had been pushing to drop into the 2's and was trying to hold the throttle open longer instead of rolling off then braking. Anyway some how I think I managed to pin the throttle open while braking causing s couple of quick stop pies then a quick rolling burnout before grabbing the clutch rolling up the runoff hitting the kill switch the realising my leg was still sticking out the front from the stoppies ( I thought I was going over) and dropped the bike on its side. Well all happened pretty quick slowing from 200+ flat out in 5th gear. Inspected bike and cable and throttle had no jamming, and performed fine for the rest of the day. Luckily bike landed on the grass so no damage but was slightly upside down and a real bitch to lift back up after cutting 7 hot laps of broadford.

Just wondering if anyone else has ever experienced this, can check out a video of it here

http://youtu.be/AxlA2nseeIw
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Re: Throttle stuck operator error

Postby Wattie » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:48 pm

well all was going well until then...

i reckon the stoppie just caught you off guard a bit.

i rolled the throttle on with the front brake at eastern Creek T1. hit the deck at 250 according to my GPS. :?
much more scratching and sliding... :kuda:
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Re: Throttle stuck operator error

Postby MadKaw » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:54 pm

On the scale of crashing, thats a pretty good one.... :D
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Re: Throttle stuck operator error

Postby paulsj » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:01 pm

Yeah the first stoppie was fine it had been lifting the rear wheel their a fair bit throughout the morning but the fact it wanted to keep going instead of turning in got me going :shock: then second stoppie into rolling burnout had me thinking about best way to leap off!! Left a nice 2 metre blacky heading into the gravel. Actually made a pretty awesome viewing point once I got over the initial shock and got the bike upright realising she was undamaged :kuda:

Wattie coming of in that fashion at the creek would deffinately of been pretty exciting!!!
Last edited by paulsj on Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Throttle stuck operator error

Postby z900/zx9 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:16 pm

Seen a lot of crashes at Broadford and most of them don't end like that.Without trying to sound condescending your lines through the back corners after crash are way out,you need to pick a line where you shoot through those without a lot of flip flopping,there are also some other corners that exit is was wide.
I know a zx9 is not the easiest bike around broadford I have done at least 30 trackdays there on mine.On the straights I tend not to go above 4th gear,infact I don't think I have ever used 5th gear there.There is a guy called Fabian Caseela or something like that he does training at champions ,best trainer I have used he will get that zx9 going way faster with entry and exit lines as well as body positioning. You should be able to go through the back Corners and be able to flap your arms like a chicken ,infact you should be able to do that anywhere on the track this shows your not weighting on the bars a good tip I picked up from him.I have in the past overtaken people on the outside of turn 2 with my arms flapping ,yep probably looked weird but its my way of checking that I am relaxed on the bike.I am having withdrawals havent done a trackday since august last year.Glad to see you got out of that one without any damage to you or the bike.
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Re: Throttle stuck operator error

Postby Kwakked Up » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:16 am

I am not the fastest at the track so may not be the best to provide advice, however I do try to learn from my stuff ups.

The flexible arms and chicken wing thing may be a clue. I have worked on this over the years and one of the things that I noticed on occasion was weight through the right arm transfers onto the throttle and brake lever. It is possible that under hard braking you can hold the throttle open and the front brake pulled on. As your weight goes forward it makes it harder to release either.

If this is the case a solution is to check that you are locking your knees into the tank so you are taking the weight off your arms.

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Re: Throttle stuck operator error

Postby paulsj » Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:49 pm

You guys are bang on, I did a superbike school at EC 10 years ago and learnt to keep the elbows loose while riding and generally start this way( although haven't heard the chicken wing analogy will be thinking about this next track day). I've been thinking about when it happened, I had been off the bike for 4-5 months no roadbike anymore. I was into my third 20 minute session of the day about 10 mins into it 7 laps done so I would guess I was getting fatigued and starting to load up my arms as legs not gripping due to tiring. Getting ready to counter steer for quick tip in and brake and just put way to much pressure from body onto the bars pinning the throttle open.

Good to know it's something I can work on and another training day broadford specific will hopefully be on the cards maybe through Preston MC?

As for my lines nice assessment there I am below average in the flip flop and not real comfortable roaring down the hill into it needs some major improvement here! I have been working on entry speed and carrying more corner speed at turn 1 and same into pit corner, which I feel I can get right 70% of the time. Last Friday I was trying to hold the throttle open all the way to the braking area for crash corner and pick my entry speed up then pin it down the hill to the flip flop where I'm still a bit lost.......
I did find myself running wide out of turn 2 on occasion due to wiggling my right arm and shoulder in an effort to be able to stand the bike up a little while trying wind on the throttle and not weight the bars, which seems easy for the first few laps but as the legs get tired the weight on the bars increases. Think I just need to actually do some exercise in my off bike time..........
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Re: Throttle stuck operator error

Postby paulsj » Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:01 pm

If you have the time check out this clip from the session before about 2 laps worth hit me up with any tips on line style? Cheers

http://youtu.be/VC7zqUNu3vs
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Re: Throttle stuck operator error

Postby z900/zx9 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:44 pm

Firstly im not a professional by any means and every rider has his own style and a proper tutor will work on that and bring out the best, I did my last tuition as I felt after doing so many track days at broadford I had fallen into bad habits and got lazy.
Best thing to remember is its a track day and its all about fun,yes sometimes the red mist comes but really see if you can get Fabian to do some tutoring with you.I have done 3 or 4 preston race schools over the years although they are helpful always better with one on one sessions.
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Re: Throttle stuck operator error

Postby Jonnymac » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:34 pm

It's Christian Casella.

He did ok in Aus then chased a dream in the UK but it didn't completely work out unfortunately.

I have heard that you shouldn't flick from side to side through the esses as well but after watching seriously fast guys through there I'm not sure I agree. Following guys doing 58s and they basically have their helmet on each side through it.

If your doing 62s just keep going and see if you can get a little bit of help from the fast guys or some tutoring. 62s is fast around broadford.

I had tutoring there which didn't go too well for me. Essentially he was a bit of a tool and couldn't stay behind me long enough to give feedback.
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Re: Throttle stuck operator error

Postby z900/zx9 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:52 pm

Jonnymac wrote:It's Christian Casella.

He did ok in Aus then chased a dream in the UK but it didn't completely work out unfortunately.

I have heard that you shouldn't flick from side to side through the esses as well but after watching seriously fast guys through there I'm not sure I agree. Following guys doing 58s and they basically have their helmet on each side through it.

If your doing 62s just keep going and see if you can get a little bit of help from the fast guys or some tutoring. 62s is fast around broadford.

I had tutoring there which didn't go too well for me. Essentially he was a bit of a tool and couldn't stay behind me long enough to give feedback.

Jonny who ;)
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Re: Throttle stuck operator error

Postby Fifer » Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:27 pm

Paulsj,

I've raced a ZXR750 and a P6 750 (so similar weight etc and general type to yours) round Broadford plenty enough times and I think your lines are mostly ok. Getting down around the 3's on what I'm guessing is a stockish ZX9 is respectable. There is only one line once you're in the flip-flop anyway. I would say you could probably stay a little further left on entry to the first part, the downhill right hander after crash, this is a deceptive corner and a lot of people don't realise just how much speed you can carry into here. Pit corner perhaps you could turn in a little later, and turn one work on the second apex exit - looks a bit early / shallow. The left hander onto the straight is an interesting one, like these other two it is or can be double apexed, what works for one here might not for another, I tend to first apex early but then run it out a little wide and crest the last bit about 1/3 off the inside. Horses for courses.
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Re: Throttle stuck operator error

Postby paulsj » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:47 am

Hey Fifer,

Thanks for the tips just got back to broadford and took a wider to the left entry to the flip flop and wow really opens up the entry I could get my knee down on the entry and accelerate in and out much harder especially the run down to pit corner. Wasn't braking on the straights as late as I could and still managed 103.5's was really happy and some good duals with mates on gsxr600 and 750.

Here's some links to a couple of clips from my last day out if anyone's keen.

http://youtu.be/gom2t0wHAXY

http://youtu.be/oCwkDY09A-M

The second is a little long if you watch the end I come off on the exit of the flip flop but manage to keep it upright joining back at the pit entry road :shock: :kuda:
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Re: Throttle stuck operator error

Postby Fifer » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:26 pm

Good-o. Most bikes with any amount of go will shake the front over the hump on the back straight, although I would say a ZX9 is pretty stable chassis-wise, so your headshake could be amplified a bit by possibly holding the bars a bit too tight. If you were gripping a bit too tight (and everybody does it unconsciously, I still have to make an effort to not do it) then this compromises a bunch of other areas of riding too. You've probably already done it but watching the first lap or so of your second clip made me think that its always useful to watch onboard of the fast 600 and 1000 guys, there's loads of stuff up from Hartwell, Pirelli race series etc, even better is being there and watching their lines. Your run off at the end looks like a bit of fatigue, and rhythm disrupted by the guy in front. That last bit of the esses is an interesting corner (called Bay 13) the far side of the track is blind but you can get on the power pretty early, almost as soon as the bike is on its side. Might see you up there one day if I ever get one of my bikes out for a spin.
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