Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

lotii10396 wrote:......... a lot of comments aren't even relevant anymore.......

Welcome to KSRC

Seen too many low sides due to use of the rear brake. Normally due to going into fast (perception) and panic braking, which is the worst situation. Those who can do it well advocate it, for those who can't do it than I would suggest a little practice on dirt on a dirt bike to learn a little control and feel.

Very few beginner training courses will teach you mid corner braking. I think Bernie Hatton do in an advanced school

Naked Twin wrote:Very few beginner training courses will teach you mid corner braking. I think Bernie Hatton do in an advanced school

HART do corner braking in their intermediate and advanced 1 courses here in Vic. Not fast though. And both standing it up and stopping and while leaned over.

Bernie Hatton does trail braking at his level one rider training course and has six levels of rider training. He thinks it should be one of the first things you learn.

I thought I understood the relevance of rider education & training, but I was applying it to riding skills - not the rider themselves. Whilst my crash analysis has been far too long-winded for some, for me it has been most valuable as I realise now that without the accident AND my analysis I may never have understood that concept - no matter how obvious it is to experienced riders. It's obviously hard to teach an old dog new tricks.......

I think the only way I "might" have understood this is was if I were compelled to re-sit my license or go through a refresher course, but I readily acknowledge that I would have thought that a waste of both time & money. I had already planned to do technical riding courses, but I never even gave a thought to theoretical rider education - it's only now I realise that is far, far more important.

Obviously the goal is to be a good "good" rider, but a good "bad" rider is still better & safer than a bad "good" rider - if that makes sense!

I needed to think like a bike rider not a car driver, and after 30 years that was a deep mind-set that I didn't recognise, even though truly thought I was both mentally & physically ready to ride the bike. Insight is a wonderful thing, but hard to get if you don't have it in the first place.

A dilemma is that if a new rider voluntarily signs up to a rider (not riding) education process they already understand it's value, the ones who don't are the riders who probably need it the most...Catch 22. For me to actually see the "forest through the trees" required a preventable and potentially dangerous crash, so I make these detailed (sorry, but one-liners mean nothing to me) forum posts so that my flawed logic & reasoning might be beneficial to any other new "old" riders like myself.

What makes a good safe rider? With my newly found insight I suggest it is something like:

60% rider, 30% skill & experience + 10% machinery. (ie rider component = 2x s&e + more than 1/2 of the whole equation)

Prior to accident I was probably thinking:

Car: 25% driver, 25% skill & experience + 50% machinery (machinery % could even be higher)
Bike: 30% rider, 50% skill & experience + 20% machinery

I'd recognised that there was a significant difference between cars & bikes, but I didn't move the emphasis to the right part of the equation. I'm sure everyone has their own opinion & I'm certainly not suggesting that this is an "answer", but it's clearly a big difference in my pre & post thinking so I'm quite interested to see how that compares with a professional instructors thoughts.

BTW getting a replacement A7-A9 rear rim is proving tricky but I "may" have sourced one from Sydney. A local supplier has suggested what looks like a pretty decent tyre (Continental Classic Racing tyre 150/65) so if I can get the rim freighted at a decent price I'll be repairing her with this package.

dilligaf wrote:

Naked Twin wrote:Very few beginner training courses will teach you mid corner braking. I think Bernie Hatton do in an advanced school

HART do corner braking in their intermediate and advanced 1 courses here in Vic. Not fast though. And both standing it up and stopping and while leaned over.

Unfortunately neither HART nor Stay Upright have SA coures, in fact most here seem to be either basic license skills or advanced riding. Still searching diligently though.

A clearer description is:

60% rider attitude, 30% rider skill & experience + 10% machinery

Just for your info a racing tyre most of the time is not suitable for road riding,especially if your a newbe,as you will struggle to get the heat into it,therefore traction maybe an issue.

lotii10396 wrote:What makes a good safe rider? With my newly found insight I suggest it is something like:
60% rider, 30% skill & experience + 10% machinery. (ie rider component = 2x s&e + more than 1/2 of the whole equation)

A clearer description is:
60% rider attitude, 30% rider skill & experience + 10% machinery

Good and safe are not the same thing. I've seen plenty of good riders, way better riders than I, do some incredibly unsafe things on a bike. I've seen one or two extremely safe riders who aren't particularly good riders. I guess I'd define "good" as skill, and "safe" as well within their ability, with a mind to the environment (i.e, safe on a motorway, safe on the twisties, and safe on a track are all completely different things)
I'd agree with you that attitude is important, but it's also pretty vague. What I define as a good riding attitude may be miles away from what others define it as. And how do you define experience? Is it years of riding? Kms of riding? Time riding in various situations? Again - it's highly variable.
I think you're over thinking it. Yes, attitude is important. Skill is important. Experience is important. Having a well maintained vehicle that operates correctly is important. But how to rank them? There are many different and valid approaches. If you weigh good higher than safe, then you might weight skill higher than attitude. Or you might weigh experience higher than attitude, because you define 'good' differently. If you weigh safe higher than good, you may weigh machinery and attitude higher than experience. So many variables!

Mate here it is in a nut shell.Get of the keyboard,get some training,get on your bike and get a heap of excess stuff out of your head and you will become a better and safer rider.

Better a low side than a High side I guess.
Yeah, It happened to me too, a long time ago. I dusted myself off picked my broken bike up and nursed it home. Garaged it and forgot about it for months as I was disgusted with myself.
I have to admit, it took me a bit to get over it, and once I did it was back to business. Count the cost and start again.
As one Jim said, Shit Happens..