noob rider crash...

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noob rider crash...

Postby lotii10396 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:51 pm

Boo hoo - low side crash....seems like I was not quite ready for a bike. Happy to put my hand up, entry speed to high (60km/h for 45km/h left-hand sweeper) and a new road so completely forgot my "rule" about knowing the road first. Horrible mid- corner undulations unsettled the bike and, for a combination of reasons I had a low side. Apparently a notorious corner said all the locals....

Completely uninjured except for road rash on my upper leg. Had all the gear *except* riding jeans.....noted.
I've obviously been handed a valuable lesson, and will spend the next few months repairing to old girl, might even do the 17" rear rim mod - seems to me you can never have enough rear grip...

So apart from admitting I'm an idiot I am after a bit of thoughts on the accident. Yes my entry speed was too high (so no need to remind me) but I lost the rear not the front. It was exactly like a dirt bike rear slide and it definitely wasn't a case of traction loss due to throttle. So I'm wondering whether the undulations unloaded the rear (I was braking trying to turn in more) which then slid the rear? Or perhaps the undulations created more force on the brake pedal which locked the rear? Have to say it didn't feel like a locked brake slide though.

The next dilemma is that the bike did a 180% slide and just slipped over the edge if the road embankment. It broke indicators, gear lever & bent the left handlebar - but that was about it. Basically no fairing or tank damage at all, so it didn't land hard. But I have a broken rear rim through one of the rim arms, and there is a 90% sharp dent in the side of the rim, as if it has been struck by a square hammer - it's that striking. But what has got me bemused is that there was absolutely nothing the bike hit, and the dent is on the right-hand side of the rim, the left-hand side of the rim is fine.


Obviously the rest of the right-hand side of the bike is undamaged, so any thoughts on what could cause this? It does have some scraping at the end of the left swing arm at the axle point if that helps theories.
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Re: noob rider crash...

Postby z900/zx9 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:08 am

sorry for your off,but Noob rider and braking in the corner equals disaster .
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Re: noob rider crash...

Postby lotii10396 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:15 am

FWIW this is a very beneficial lesson for me to have early in my biking experience. I do not regret the accident at all - I clearly needed a reality check. I was pondering how you found out the limits of a bike, now I have done so with the sobering fact that is was my arrogance & stupidity that caused the accident, and mainly luck that both I and the bike are relatively unscathed.

I recognise the accident was 99% my fault, however I've posted this not to be reminded of the bleeding obvious - instead I am trying to work out what *physically* happened, which will also hopefully make me a better rider.

Using the rear brake to try and tighten the line has been mentioned by others as a genuine riding technique. I ride with my foot on the rear brake as I entered the corner, and dialled on rear brake (ie it wasnt a mid corner emergency stomp) after i had leaned off the seat and tipped it over as far as i dared. As mentioned it did not feel like a locked wheel, nor is there a flat spot which would indicate a locked brake. So for the sake of argument lets say it was not a locked brake. However having a rear end low-slide seems an unusual accident, all things equal in a low side you would expect the front to slide first. Perhaps the rear wheel braking could have tipped the rear tyre over its grip limit? And being a noob there was no way I was going to catch it.

However at that point (again 99% my fault) my cornering options were limited - so perhaps I shouldn't have bothered with the rear brake and just tipped it over even more? Worst case is a front-end low side, best case it holds and gets around the corner. Makes sense, however the counter argument is that the braking was slowing the bike therefore reducing the force on the front tyre allowing it to grip.

Apart from being an idiot perhaps my mistake was thinking that the rear brake can be used when the normal cornering options have run out. That may be the case for advanced riders, but I expect that is a track skill.

But I still don't understand how I have a slightly scuffed but basically undamaged bike except for a broken & bent rear rim? Logic says the rim must have struck something *very hard* (99.99% would conclude this) but for the sake of discussion does anyone have any other crazy theories as to what else could possibly have caused this damage?
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Re: noob rider crash...

Postby JimZXR » Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:48 am

Pity about the crash but try not to beat yourself up about it too much and dot try to analyse it too much either.

Accept you've been off, remember it for next time and move on.

If you've down something blatantly stupid, which it doesn't seem you have, the don't so that again but otherwise just try to move on.

All of my crashes have been lowsides and each for a different reason.

Shit happens sometimes!
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Re: noob rider crash...

Postby fireyrob » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:35 am

I reckon you've locked the rear and its started a slide. You said there were bumps, well if the tyre losses contact and you trying to tighten the corner you could have easily locked the rear up. The speed you mentioned I dont think is an issue. I never brake mid corner, throttle control and entry speed should be your concern.

I dont want to give any advice because my riding is average but I do know that anything Ive tried or learnt is on the track. Thankfully thus far all my drops have been there too.

Look up 'twist of the wrist' and 'twist of the wrist 2'. Lots of theory there to give you a mind boggle.

Also I think you need to think about some rider training, cornering and braking schools, superbike school etc You never stop learning ;)
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Re: noob rider crash...

Postby Wattie » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:44 am

Or you suspension is old and shit and couldn't deal with the corrugations properly.
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Re: noob rider crash...

Postby MAXUMIS » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:59 pm

Wattie wrote:Or you suspension is old and shit and couldn't deal with the corrugations properly.

ha ha ha ha ,guise that's one way to put it , lol :lol:
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Re: noob rider crash...

Postby lotii10396 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:45 pm

I'm pretty sure I didn't lock the rear, and for those who say don't touch the brake I had no choice - the undulation launched the bike up & out from the corner apex & it just wasn't going to make it around the corner without doing something - I was leaning off the seat & tipping it over as far as I dared. I actually think my technical mistake was not getting off the brake as I actually had got the front turning in. Oh well, next time......not!

Another factor is not immediately replacing the rear tyre with a new one. There was nothing wrong with it (confirmed by the mechanics), but it was at least 3 years old and I could have gone up a size from the 140/80 on the bike - that could possibly been enough extra grip to have gotten me around without dropping it.

But it does emphasise to me that you can never have enough grip, especially as the old girl is a bit heavier than the new bikes. So I will be pondering a couple of alternatives to just replacing the 18" rear rim with it's limited tyre choice these days. I have read a couple of GPZ owners who have either fitted a zzr600 rear rim (160 or 170/70/17) or gone the whole hog and replaced the rear setup with a zzr1100 swing arm, rim & brakes (180/55/17).

As mentioned I am still bemused as to why the rear rim is dented & broken (there was nothing to hit...) but I'm assuming there must have been a considerable force involved to do this so I guess I need to check the rear swing-arm for damage and/or mis-alignment? Can this be done "at-home" or does this need to be checked at a shop?
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Re: noob rider crash...

Postby z900/zx9 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:04 pm

As others have said don't over analize it,best thing you can do is some training and get to know your bike.I also have an old dunger if that what a 76 z900 is and I find Bridgestone BT45R tyres hang on pretty well even though they are 130/18" grip has never been a problem.
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Re: noob rider crash...

Postby fireyrob » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:06 pm

:? I give up.
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Re: noob rider crash...

Postby Jonnymac » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:13 pm

fireyrob wrote::? I give up.


There's a difference between giving up and knowing when to move on Rob....... :)
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Re: noob rider crash...

Postby fireyrob » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:27 pm

Jonnymac wrote:
fireyrob wrote::? I give up.


There's a difference between giving up and knowing when to move on Rob....... :)


I shoulda passed when I read 60kph entry speed to high for a 45kph corner. Maybe the bike got bored and decided to throw itself down the road :)
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Re: noob rider crash...

Postby Nelso » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:16 pm

Wattie wrote:Or you suspension is old and shit and couldn't deal with the corrugations properly.


This is exactly what I was thinking.
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noob rider crash...

Postby Jonnymac » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:15 am

[/quote="fireyrob"]
Maybe the bike got bored and decided to throw itself down the road :)[/quote]

Hehe gold
Last edited by Jonnymac on Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: noob rider crash...

Postby Jonnymac » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:19 am

Wattie wrote:Or you suspension is old and shit and couldn't deal with the corrugations properly.



This combined with a lock of the rear over a corrugation, wouldn't have been enough to flat spot your tyre so you wouldn't be able to tell that way.

Would've been a split second and then you were sliding down the road......
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