TD - overtaking techniques, do's and donts...

This question is specifically in the context of ridedays/track days only...not race days for you pro's (im assuming fundamentally the same, however racedays would be more aggressive than a rideday/trackday)....

Just to be clear... im not fast... i ride in the slow group.. but given how packed the TD's are these days.. iam finding myself caught behind a rider (or group) now and then.. and it sort of makes the session abit flat as i struggle with overtaking...

Doing this right was already tough on the 250rr... so much it lead me to having an off at t5 a couple years back... short story..i got sick of being stuck behind the same rider after 2 laps...kept getting real close.. then t5 saw an opportunity.. went around the outside...sweet.....oh no running out of road.. more lean, more lean... low side lol... stack was minor.. but fecking blew my confidence out of the water after that..

So now onthe 6... ive been only one TD so far...and bloody same stupid shit problem....however not as bad as before given the extra cc's..
Unless the rider is really slow.. i can only manage to successfully overtake at the last two turns of the track (then powering out at the straight)..if im lucky i can manage overtaking on the small straight part after T8/T9? the two right handers....provided the rider doesnt decide to go flat stick and late brake into the next one..

So...... whats the right technique for doing this????

this is my approach.. and i will be going out on limb here by openly sharing what ive done on the track which may be considered stupid/dangerous.. and for that i apologise but would appreciate if u guys highlight this...
- some riders like hitting apex early.... so i dont like cutting on the inside if we're getting pretty close to the corner...i would only try overtaking on the inside before reaching the tipping in point.. but this is rare. ive tried cutting in a few times before but only to end up hitting brakes hard to avoid hitting their back wheel as the rider tipped in earlier than i thought..
- some riders (including me at T2..lol dunno why im doig this now).. tend to drift mid corner and start running wide... so im worried about outside.. plus i get remiders of previous incident at t5
- what i try to do, is stick on their and get close as possible... let them hit tip in first... ill try to tip in 1/2sec later (not as much braking).. with the aim of more drive and cornerspeed coming out of the corner (on the gas earlier) then overtaking them on a straight bit before next corner... what i think sucks about this, is i think this is killing the shit out of my tyres...


anyhows enough ramble..looking forward to hearing what techniques/tips etc i could try..

You need to do what you feel comfortable with .

The trouble with white group is that generally everyone around you is just as inexperienced as you if not more so. This means that when you do decide to make a move you could find them easily scared creating an unexpected reaction from them.

Also it means that they wont hold an line as such or even anything that resembles it. I spent a day in yellow group about a month ago and i am baffled how half of them stay upright. Some of the lines and braking markers were just ridiculous.

You'll need to be on your toes but I wouldnt be trying to go around the outside of people just yet. Personally I would stick with what your doing plus and some more moves under brakes but make sure you are well and truely visible before tip in points.

And if you do something stupid (it does happen...) just go back and apologize. I did a TD in March and in one session I managed to almost run a guy out on T4 (overtaking me on the outside) and one on T2/T3 cause he figured I'd be tipping in sooner than I did I think. Those were the only times I ever had to go back and apologize in 13 TDs and I did so 'cause I knew I'd @#$ up. Both times I was being overtaken so some people will say it wasn't really my fault but the way I see it, if you can't maintain the line you initially intended and this causes someone else to have a moment, then it's your fault too.

I for one love overtaking under brakes! Especially T2 and T9 for obvious reasons... I find it easier/safer to correct any sudden movement from the rider in front in case it happens as it's then up just to me to sort it out.

how do u guys go about over taking in A , b1, b2 groups then? assumign everyone sticks to the correct riding line..

Other options are get to pit entry first for a clear track, or if you get stuck in congestion try a pit lane ride through to drop back half a lap........ or if it is happening every TD move up to the yellow group.... I reckon your better to be amoungst the slower ones in yellow than the fastest guy in white.....

i tend ti either outbrake them, making sure you are completely past them before the turn. no point just showing awheel and expecting them to move out of your way.

if i dont outbrake them, i will hang back in the corner and get a good tight exit ovetrtaking them up th inside on the exit. pretty safe and shows them a nice wheelie

Red group has the same rules as every other group e.g. 2m, maintain safe lines and dont cut of other riders............................................they just dont get followed very often

We I first started TD's I was most comforatable with overtaking on the exit of corners up the inside.

As time went by I started to get used to going up the inside under brakes.

Whatever you do don't worry about what's happening behind you, this will slow you down & keep your mind off what's most important, If you are worried about the bikes around you, pull into the pits & do a ride through to get some clear track, the marshals have no problem at all with doing that & it also means you can have a small break in the concentration..... regroup the thought processes.
As for overtaking only do it if its safe... so many times I have seen someone shove it up the inside only to see them overcook it & run of the track... I have a good laugh every time this happens especially in the arvo as bodies & minds get tired & stupid mistakes are made.

All of the above is great advice! One thing I try and concentrate on and find myself failing sometimes is to watch where I want to go (reference points). Dont fall into the trap of staring at the bike in front. In time you will find that you can pass easily! Also sometimes just remember its a rideday and no matter how frustrating there will always be 40 different riding skills in each session and to just enjoy the moment

i recently stepped up from white to yellow to avoid overtaking. I found some of those guys in white group are at sometimes all over the place like a mad womans shit , i've neally t boned a few and had to hit the ankers hard in turn one which scared the fuk out of me because riders changed direction in the middle of the turn
so i was never sure if i should pass them or not, but going to yellow group its much easier to pass them , i only pass on the outside if there is heaps of room or i wait. It seems the riders are more stable in the higher groups.

It's a track day so just resign yourself to the fact that all sorts of riders with all sorts of skills will do whatever they think is OK. Either out brake people into corners or blast past them out of corners and you'll be fine. Try to give them space as much as you can but it doesn't always work as some will run wide etc. At the end of the day it's a ride day though so everyone will try to go faster than everyone else. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

'round the outside is my fave on the 600, but it's almost too easy.

My advice for getting past somebody who's only a bit slower would be to follow them and find where you're quicker, then give yourself a bit of space behind then, look past and line them up for the pass. Whether it's inside or outside, under brakes or on the gas, if you're looking at their arse you'll struggle to go past them.

Damn I need to get back to the track

'round the outside is my fave on the 600, but it's almost too easy.

Nearly time for you to move outta White group Dave

'round the outside is my fave on the 600, but it's almost too easy.

Nearly time for you to move outta White group Dave

Are you nucking futs? Do you want to die? Those yellow group guys are scary fast

'round the outside is my fave on the 600, but it's almost too easy.

Nearly time for you to move outta White group Dave

Are you nucking futs? Do you want to die? Those yellow group guys are scary fast

I did say NEARLY .