Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

Hi all, would like to pick your brains about the mean feat of executing a turn without running wide into the lane beside you!

Shifty took me out to the Jamboree this Sunday (was great fun, did anyone go?) and I rode all the way there on the zzr250 without any major dramas besides slipping in neutral instead of second and revving the guts out of the poor thing (1. Entering the M1 Stanley St on-ramp, and 2. Coming out of the Raceway and turning onto the highway). The ride itself was pretty good for my confidence because it was my first time on the M1 and the only thing that was really hard there was keeping my hand comfortable around the throttle to maintain consistent speed. The only real thing I found difficult was taking off from a set of lights on Main Rd, MacGregor.

If anyone knows the area, there is a large intersection with this particular right turn onto Kessels Rd having two turning lanes. Shifty and I were in the inside lane right at the start of the line, and even though the guy next to us wasn't turning (well he wasn't indicating anyway) I was still nervous about going into the other lane. Shifty has told me that it's best to start out wide in the lane so that you aren't making as much of a sharp turn as you would if you were in close to the island, so I started out wide but as I mentioned before I got a little anxious because I would be close to the car. I managed to stay in my lane (I literally putted around this corner though!) and was particularly pleased with myself as this was close to the start of our ride (Norman Park to Willowbank Raceway). As I said I didn't have any other problems, I even rode through Southbank that afternoon which was so scary.

It seems like there are some turns that are much easier than others and as I write this I don't think I could even think of anything more obvious to point out! I know that only with practise will I come to learn how best to approach a stopped turn (is this the correct lingo? I mean to turn from a stop) but can you guys tell me some of the things you've come to realise with practising turning?

There is a really awesome corner though coming off Fairfield Rd, left onto Gladstone Rd and it was so fun! I leant right over and felt like a motoGP rider, hahaha.

You need to master the art of counter steering, then any corner will be yours
My factory is in an industrial area that is deserted on Sundays apart from the odd learner driver, we have a horseshoe shaped road with up hill & down hill corners & is perfect to practice cornering on.... just keep getting faster & faster until the knee scraper is just about worn out then reverse the direction

Shifty's spot on with starting wide. Always enter a corner wide (unless you think it will put you too close to cars etc) and then aim to finish tight. That way you have some buffer if you need it at the end of the turn. The biggest single factor though is to look where you want to go. Get into the habit of looking where you want the bike to be ie at the start of the turn look as far through the turn as you can, as you get further through keep looking further ahead.

To initiate the turn you then need to counter steer as Rob has mentioned ie push the right bar to go right etc. Once the bike leans though you should relax your inside arm.

For the time being though don't try and get too technical but just explore things at your own pace. Sounds like your coming along pretty well.

Good luck with it.

all of the above is dead on the money!!!!always look where you want to end up....not where the front wheel/bike is pointing....you will notice your cornering will improve and as always.....practice makes perfect!!! good luck

Glen wrote:To initiate the turn you then need to counter steer... push the right bar to go right etc.

Sounds a little backwards to me. Perhaps you meant push the left bar to go right?

For the time being though don't try and get too technical but just explore things at your own pace.

Best advice ever. Don't ever let anyone (me, another motorist, or someone giving advice) push you into something you're not comfortable doing. All comes naturally, you're a bit of a star pupil if I do say so myself

Shifty wrote:

Glen wrote:To initiate the turn you then need to counter steer... push the right bar to go right etc.

Sounds a little backwards to me. Perhaps you meant push the left bar to go right?

That's why it's called 'counter' steering.
At any sort of speed if you push the right bar forward, or lean your right should down (which ends up pushing the bar forward), the bike will lean to the right, and thus turn to the right. Left for left.

The easiest way I found to get the idea of this was to find a reasonable length straight, with little traffic, and while going straight push on one bar slightly - the bike will start to drift across your lane and you'll begin to feel what counter steering is.
ty

Ive found counter steering difficult to get used to but it is proven and something that doesnt necessarily come natural to everyone! Had a couple of trackdays and Ive found it something I need to work at ALOT before it will become natural. Your probably doing it at the moment without realising!!!

Like Ty said, find some clear long length of road (a dead end street in an industrial area outside business hours is always good for this), get some speed up (ie only about 30-40kph) and gently push the handle bar with light hands (ie dont hold the bars too hard)! Push the left bar to go left and vice versa! Small steps...

To really exaggerate the point and make the concept clearer for myself I tried it on a pushbike in a carpark and was spinning in tight circles at speed in no time at all!

Im no expert and more experienced thoughts would be good at this point...

fireyrob wrote:Ive found counter steering difficult to get used to but it is proven and something that doesnt necessarily come natural to everyone! Had a couple of trackdays and Ive found it something I need to work at ALOT before it will become natural. Your probably doing it at the moment without realising!!!

you will find that your doing it as well Rob without even realising it. By leaning the bike over you would beed to be counter steering to some extent. Some people do it without even realising it, even when the are trying to concentrate on it

just as you would have encountered at SBS one session is based on this technic. For me this session was the least useful because I was already doing it naturally and concentrating on it didnt alter anything except my concentration from the road . 'Quick turn' is just a accelerated version of this skill so if find that you can quick turn around a track or on the road it would be a safe bet that you can counter steer successfully.

ty wrote:

Shifty wrote:

Glen wrote:To initiate the turn you then need to counter steer... push the right bar to go right etc.

Sounds a little backwards to me. Perhaps you meant push the left bar to go right?

That's why it's called 'counter' steering.
At any sort of speed if you push the right bar forward, or lean your right should down (which ends up pushing the bar forward), the bike will lean to the right, and thus turn to the right. Left for left.

The easiest way I found to get the idea of this was to find a reasonable length straight, with little traffic, and while going straight push on one bar slightly - the bike will start to drift across your lane and you'll begin to feel what counter steering is.
ty

Don't worry, I'm just a retard and misread the bit I quoted! I read is as "turn right to go right" which obviously is anything but counter steering

Sorry for anyone I confused, Dale will be able to confirm that I do actually know what I'm talking about and that I taught her the right thing

Shifty wrote:Don't worry, I'm just a retard and misread the bit I quoted! I read is as "turn right to go right" which obviously is anything but counter steering

Sorry for anyone I confused, Dale will be able to confirm that I do actually know what I'm talking about and that I taught her the right thing

Is this where I'm meant to say you're right?

Really though, counter steering is something that just seems so obvious and I think that it could be something a lot of people do without knowing it. I found that after I'd practised a tiny bit (riding in a straight line and pushing the bar left to go left (that's right, right?! )) it was much easier to do it on the road around drifty corners. I also find that leaning can make turning a lot easier too. Once again, seems SO obvious but until you try these things on a regular basis and get used to it, you don't notice how much effort you must have been putting into turning before.

Great that you are thinking about what you're doing and taking account of the impact your actions have on the bike and the way it stops/starts/turns

Signs of a good rider to be

heres a tip that other KSRC member have imbeded into my brain about turning.... "LEAN THE FARKER"!!

Just thought id pass it on

P4nza wrote:heres a tip that other KSRC member have imbeded into my brain about turning.... "LEAN THE FARKER"!!

Just thought id pass it on

Doing a spectacular job so far. The regular chicken strips on the bike (hey, it's my commuter) are about 10mm from the edges of the tyres... and Dale's marks are only another 10mm from there which is quite impressive for a beginner!!

We probably did 100-150km split into two rides this weekend, with our student progressing very nicely!

Going really well so far! Lots of rides around Brisbane including our first 'mountain' ride being a couple of laps of Mt Cootha! Plenty of emergency braking practice yesterday and heaps more low-speed stuff too.

Only one minor little incident so far, at a tricky little place to stop... uphill gradient, sliping off to the right, while stopping to turn left. The foot went down but so did the bike, no damage to speak of except an impressive little bruise (footpeg?) which I will probably be in a small amount of trouble for posting



Wish Dale well, first day of license training tomorrow! We've been through everything I wanted to teach, also running through the Q-Ride competencies to make sure everything I'd taught will have us up to licensing stage.

Good luck, not that you'll need it!

good luck dale!!!