zx6 2000 model spark problem!

[christianzx6]

Hey everyone,
Sorry that my my second post is asking for help on a technical issue, but ya know how it goes.

Voltages are with respect to ground

The problem: no spark
The engines a 99 model, in a 2000 frame with 2000 electrics, i saw the 99 running with these spark plugs and it was sweet, the difference is the whole electrics. I changed the pickup coil and alternator connectors to 00 model versions, and they check out as stated in the manual (resistance check).

Whats weird: The stick coils have 2 wires going into them, a red and a white with a colour. The white with a colour receives pulses down it when the starter is turned on (the engine turns over) and the multimeter says its getting 8v between the white + colour and ground. I have checked the stick coils as stated in the manual (the resistance check), but i dont have the voltage adapter to do the other check.

The red wire has a constant 12v on it when the ignition is on, and remains at battery voltage the whole time. The center pin on the spark plug is at the same voltage as the red wire the whole time. Is this normal? it just seems strange that the pulse dosent change anything, and the center pin on the spark plug stays at battery voltage. According to the circuit diagram, the red goes through the kill switch and then to a brown/white wire which goes between the IC ignitor and the meter assembly (i think it powers all the lights on the meters). I checked the fuel pump relay (the other end of the red wire, and its not getting the battery voltage from there.

If anyone is working on their 2000-02 model zx6 or has been working on it recently, could you check to see if the red wire to the stick coils has a constant 12v? and if it does, does the center pin on the plug also have 12v?

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Christian

[I-K]

Urm, my first question would have to be, "How did you get the 2000 model's plug-top coils into the '99 engine's plug tunnels?"

They don't fit, because the '98-'99 model runs conventional HT leads to the plugs, and the plug tunnels are, thus, narrower.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c152/I-K/WontFit3.jpg

Or did you change the head, as well?

[christianzx6]

Yeah i changed the cylinder head cover to the magnesium 00 one.
I bought the two bikes from auction, and im putting the good engine in the good frame, the reason i want the 00 model electrics is because they are tidier, in better condition and the instruments are better.

Just incase anyone is wondering, I had the whole thing straightened professionally.

Im in need of side fairings aswell, if anyone has some spares. (i know i'll put this up in the other section).

[Maty10]

Its normal for there to be a constant 12v coming into the top of the sticks. The coils then settle at that voltage (current technically), and when its time to fire a spark plug, the pulse is sent, source voltage drops to zero, coils apose the change in current, and voila, really really high voltage gets placed across the plugs and the spark is created.


Simplest way to test for spark is to kill the fuel, pull a plug out and rest it against something grounded, and spin the motor on the starter. Then you'll really know if you have spark. If your getting 12v to your sticks, and the other wire is pulsing it certainly seems like your ignition circut is working fine.

[christianzx6]

thanks for the help so far guys, and to maty - thats exactly the test i am doing, yet no spark! i have one of the plugs and coils out and i ground in on the vacuum valve covers, which are grounded to the engine. Im glad to hear that constant 12v is supposed to be there, now im just not sure why there is no voltage surge on the plug end. It seems ridiculous that all the stick coils would resistance test fine but all be broken, i've tested 2 stick coils with the spark plug grounded. Is it possible that my pickup is wired the wrong way around or something like that? im clutching at straws, as the pickup wiring is identical to the 00 model, and i wired it up as per the circuit diagram.

dont u just love autoelectrics
I know i do

[mike-s]

Dang, and here i was having issues with having to sort out the electrics on a 1971 cb250 that i foolishly bought to rebuild/repair!

[christianzx6]

ok guys, taking a step back for a minute to make sure:

The multimeter im using is a cheap one, and I dont know how often it updates. Im assuming it pulses because the voltage changes from zero to 8.5ish when the starter is turning the engine over. Im gonna try and hook up an LED to it and I should see it flash right? i mean the pulses cant be that fast when the engine's being cranked so slowly and the pulse frequency should be half the revs of the engine.

Just an update.

Ok, i decided to buy a better multimeter with heaps more functions n junk, aswell as an analogue display. Basically my situation right now is:

The pulse from the pickup coil is def there, its going into the IC igniter. Its a 15mV pulse across the pickup wires (black/white + black/blue at the IC igniter). Then the output of the IC igniter for any of the spark leads (the white + colour) is 1.3 volts with ignition on, increasing to 5-6V when the starter is pressed. There is NO PULSE on these wires, contrary to what I said earlier, where i misinterpreted the increase in voltage to be the pulses (i assumed my multimeter resolution was too low). I will be looking into IC Igniter prices tomorrow, as im assuming its a problem with that now that i know i get a pulse going in, but no pulsing coming out. The Igniter looks to be in perfect condition though, not a scratch on it.

here's hoping they are cheap
Also its got the mitsubishi logo on the side, would it be cheaper to attempt to order through mitsubishi or a car place over a bike one? in my experience bike shops are +++ on places like autobarn for the same s**t.

[Maty10]

If the resistances of the coil check out (both primary and secondary), then the coils can be assumed to be fine. They are just two lengths of wire after all, the only problem would be a break in one of those lengths.

Who's to say the resolution of your new multimeter is not worse than your previous? After all your trying to measure a pulse train, the realm of a digital cro, not multimeter. (although granted you are getting something from the pickup)

I wouldn't bother with hooking up a LED, the pulse would be too quick to notice by sight.


Just a thought, are the vacuum valve covers really grounded? The are only connected to the rocker cover, and that is not grounded (dirty big gasket in the way, and the bolts have o-rings on them don't they)???

[christianzx6]

Thanks for the input, but yea the vacuum covers are grounded to the rest of the engine and frame. I assume the connection is made at the bolt threads. The pulsing isnt that fast is it? i mean for 2000rpm = 33.3rev's second. For a 4 stroke motor 2 revs = 1 ignition so its 16.6 pulses per second. Also gotta remember that the starter wont turn the engine at idle revs, it'll be much much slower. The analogue display on this new meter shows a bar which rises and falls (therefore pulsing), an oscilloscope was just too much $$$. I checked both primary and secondary resistances in both coils, which were all fine. If anyone thinks it could be anything other than the IC igniter, even if its just a guess, i'm grateful for the suggestions.

[I-K]

Thanks for the input, but yea the vacuum covers are grounded to the rest of the engine and frame. I assume the connection is made at the bolt threads. The pulsing isnt that fast is it?

The discharge which provides the energy for the spark occurs just as quickly at idle as at redline. What varies is the frequency of the pulses...

i mean for 2000rpm = 33.3rev's second. For a 4 stroke motor 2 revs = 1 ignition so its 16.6 pulses per second.

No, actually. Like all bikes with a crank-driven ignition trigger, but no cam position sensor to determine whether a cylinder is approaching TDC on the exhaust or the compression stroke, carbed ZX6's run a wasted spark.

[christianzx6]

Wow! a wasted spark, that is surprising.

Problem is fixed guys: the pickup coils are the same for 99 and 00 models (the restance chk proved this, but what isnt the same is the shape of the ignition sprocket (not sure what the proper name of it is). As i dont have a manual for the 99, i looked up a parts list on kawasaki before taking the pickups apart. I have gotten so good at electrics that i just fitted an alarm with keyless ignition, and two blown fuses later its all in good working order! fantastic.

So lucky i didnt go out and get the IC igniter, as it was fine.

A big thankyou to everyone, here's hoping i get some fairings and have it road legal soon, cant wait to ride it.

Christian