FWIW I ended up getting Oxford Chillout shirt and pants. These have an insulated windproof front and coolmax back.
http://www.oxprod.com/index.php?pg=3&ac ... pid=172&p=http://www.oxprod.com/index.php?pg=3&ac ... pid=173&p=Gone from trying to fit coolmax, thermals and a fleece top under leathers to these and a t-shirt or these and thermals if it looks like being seriously cold.
Like them over thermals as they wick the sweat away. Bit Exxy but I don't feel like the Michelin man anymore.