Dry Ice in air box - better combustion?

[paternoster]

Theoritacly if you have a cool air it will produce better engine combustion. Now what if I put a dry ice (properly contained to avoid being sucked) inside my zx6r air box, shouldn't this do the job and help the engine to have better piston combustion ?As the air flow through it gets suck as a colder air to the intake. I believe the cold C02 that it releases don't do any harm to the engine. If it does work, will you be able to feel any power gain? If it doesn't, then why ?

[mike-s]

Nutty idea for sure, but if you set it up to vent the CO2 outside of the airbox without ANY getting in the motor, i cant see why not.


EDIT: afterthought, hmm, bit of a crazy idea, but then again you might cop a bitching quantity of carb icing with the temperature being dropped that significantly (moisture in the air freezing upon contact with the metal in the carby

[smek]

haha that's an interesting idea.

I was also thinking about the icing issue, it's pretty humid over there.

[paternoster]

I read in some rally car article, that a japanese driver - katsuhiko taguchi actually done it, and placed a dry ice close to the air filter. It actually allow the engine to suck more O2 molecule for the same volume of air - therefore it produces more efficient and effective combustion.

[SNR]

Don't forget that the air will be denser so the jetting will have to be adjusted big time...............do you have that much money that you can buy another engine. If so cool, go to the drags check the theory out and send the pic's in. Never seen an 'exploded' view of a motorcycle engine
Just kidding but wow it'd be great to tinker around with it and see what really happens!


snr

[Ratmick]

Theoritacly if you have a cool air it will produce better engine combustion. Now what if I put a dry ice (properly contained to avoid being sucked) inside my zx6r air box, shouldn't this do the job and help the engine to have better piston combustion ?As the air flow through it gets suck as a colder air to the intake. I believe the cold C02 that it releases don't do any harm to the engine. If it does work, will you be able to feel any power gain? If it doesn't, then why ?

Cold dry air makes my carbies freeze up and the bike runs like a pig, do you really want that effect?

CO2 won't do any harm to the engine, but it will displace O2 and it won't burn or support combustion (which is why they use it in fire extinquishers).

Jury's out on that one I reckon...

[I-K]

I imagine it would be quite a waste of time.

/me flips envelope over.

A supersport bike has an airbox volume of about 8L, and cylinder volume of 600mL per cylinder. At 12,000rpm, the engine's spinning 200 times per second. This equates to 100 intake events per cylinder per second. So,

100/sec*0.6L=60L/sec

is how much air a supersport motor spinning in the go-zone goes through in a second. That's some 7.5 times the airbox volume, which translates to any given "piece" of air sucked into the intake spending some 0.15sec in the airbox before being slurped in by a cylinder.

Thus, the dry ice would only have 0.15sec in which to cool the incoming air. There's only so much heat the air can give up in that time.

[mfzx6r]

maybe just some type of intercooler ?

[HemiDuty]

None of this is really benificial with aspirated engines. The cooling effect just isn't big enough to do much. I know a couple of drag racers that have mucked around with dry ice canisters surrounding a coiled up fuel line to chill the fuel on the way in, and it makes very little difference. Also the stuff doesn't actually last that long when actively cooling something, which is why it's use is pretty much limited to drag racing.

The reason intercoolers/water injection etc. are used with forced induction engines is that compressing the intake charge heats it to very high temps, and a good cooling setup will get the temp back down to close to ambient, but never really any lower.

Why don't you just bump the compression up in the engine and run Methanol? It has a much lower temp going into the engine and can withstand much higher cylinder pressures. Of course it needs to run much richer so it would double the amount of fuel needed for a given race length...

[Aussie Ninja]

You want more oxygen? You can buy it in bottles with NOS written on the side.

[paternoster]

I imagine it would be quite a waste of time.

/me flips envelope over.

A supersport bike has an airbox volume of about 8L, and cylinder volume of 600mL per cylinder. At 12,000rpm, the engine's spinning 200 times per second. This equates to 100 intake events per cylinder per second. So,

100/sec*0.6L=60L/sec

is how much air a supersport motor spinning in the go-zone goes through in a second. That's some 7.5 times the airbox volume, which translates to any given "piece" of air sucked into the intake spending some 0.15sec in the airbox before being slurped in by a cylinder.

Thus, the dry ice would only have 0.15sec in which to cool the incoming air. There's only so much heat the air can give up in that time.

That's also my concern. With the rate of airflow coming in so rapidly when u go fast, it just doesn't have enough time to cool down. But what happen at lower speed corner?

[paternoster]

None of this is really benificial with aspirated engines. The cooling effect just isn't big enough to do much. I know a couple of drag racers that have mucked around with dry ice canisters surrounding a coiled up fuel line to chill the fuel on the way in, and it makes very little difference. Also the stuff doesn't actually last that long when actively cooling something, which is why it's use is pretty much limited to drag racing.

The reason intercoolers/water injection etc. are used with forced induction engines is that compressing the intake charge heats it to very high temps, and a good cooling setup will get the temp back down to close to ambient, but never really any lower.

Why don't you just bump the compression up in the engine and run Methanol? It has a much lower temp going into the engine and can withstand much higher cylinder pressures. Of course it needs to run much richer so it would double the amount of fuel needed for a given race length...

Putting the compression up - that is an option that I was thinking also. Or make the engine leaner that might work. But will it effect the engine lifespan ? and I guess giving more cold air (o2) will explode like a dragster

[swabio-ACT]

Aaah Mas Edhy yg gila!

Aku tidak tahu kalau itu akan memperkuatkan mesin'nya! Tapi idenya gila banget!

Man you are out there dude! Good to see! So how is the crazy zx6r going in jkt!

[Barrabob]

dude if you are worried about it go and get some of that oxegenated fuel. elf might sell you a drum but you would need a diferent injection map.

do you already have a pc3 and stuff I see ivans performance products is selling a pc3 fully mapped with a ignition advance module that goes a lond way towards 130hp on a 05 636.

I personally prefere spending my dough on a comfy seat and well balanced suspension and then go out and enjoy when i can.

Nitrous oxide is what you need if you want to go down the road of voulumetric effiency.

[swabio-ACT]

I personally prefere spending my dough on a comfy seat and well balanced suspension and then go out and enjoy when i can.

Man the 05 seat rox! sooooo comfy it aint funny!