Blown up ZZR600 ( Where is the chinaman ???)

[mouse_zzr600]

Me again with yet another zZR600e7 ( 1999) issue.
I need to find the chinaman i supposadly have offended so he can get off my back.
After many issues with my gearbox ( re previous posts ) and finally having a nice ride again without issue , i decided at 75000k to place bike into a shop to do some prevenative maintanance.
I asked for the timming chain to be replaced and the valve clearances to be done, along with some other service related items.
Here it is 2500k aprox later the cam chain has let go and destroyed my engine. These engines are not a free run engine and when the cams stop pistons hit valves. Engine is stripped and in need of a complete overhaul and repair.
My question here and now is do i give up on my ride and wreck bike out or have it repaired in the shop where the chain was done?
Keeping in mind the shop is disputing they did anythong wrong and my insurance wont cover the repairs due to a mechanical failure being not covered on any policy.
Parts alone ex Kawasaki are in the $2500-$3800 range depending if i replace pistons and bearings or not.
These prices alone are heartbreaking lettlone it places the bike as a writeoff due to being beyond 50% of replacement value.
Placed feelers out for a replacement unit and its sitting at approx $1500-$1800 for a c/- .
Is there another power plant that will fit this model without the problems ive had with this one.
Rapidly loosing faith in my ride and kwakas or am i just sh one t out of luck.
Any veiws, comments would be appreciated.

Mouse

[Ratmick]

Mate I had an E6 and it ran like a train (actually as a VLine customer that's not a good simile) for the 49,000km I had her for out of the 68,000km it had on the clock when I traded it in on the Hornet.

In that time I had a water pump go, and that was it apart from consumables like tyres, chains and sprockets and the speedo cable. The rest of the damage to the bike was either self-inflicted (I ran into a drunk pedestrian once and dropped it on my foot. I also hit a 2x4 on the freeway at 80km/h, got big air and buckled the front rim) or done by people that were meant to be fixing it (a dealer in Melbourne left all the front axle bolts loose and another dealer tightened the chain so much you could have used it to tune a guitar).

The engine is bulletproof and so's the gearbox. Take the prick of a mechanic to the Small Claims court, the engine/gearbox on a ZZR600 should last virtually forever if it's given the normal maintenance as per the service book.

As for what fits...is difficult. I used to think the early model (mid-90s) ZX-6Rs were the same motor but looking at the Kawasaki website and checking the head part number seems to indicate this is not the case:

Model (13):
ZX600-E1 (Ninja ZX-6) (1993)
ZX600-E10 (Ninja ZX-6) (2002)
ZX600-E11 (ZZR600) (2003)
ZX600-E12 (ZZR600) (2004)
ZX600-E13 (CANADA ONLY) (2005)
ZX600-E2 (Ninja ZX-6) (1994)
ZX600-E3 (Ninja ZX-6) (1995)
ZX600-E4 (Ninja ZX-6) (1996)
ZX600-E5 (Ninja ZX-6) (1997)
ZX600-E6 (Ninja ZX-6) (1998)
ZX600-E7 (Ninja ZX-6) (1999)
ZX600-E8 (Ninja ZX-6) (2000)
ZX600-E9 (Ninja ZX-6) (2001)

The crankcase seems the same, alas ZZR600 only:

Model (9):
ZX600-E1 (Ninja ZX-6) (1993)
ZX600-E2 (Ninja ZX-6) (1994)
ZX600-E3 (Ninja ZX-6) (1995)
ZX600-E4 (Ninja ZX-6) (1996)
ZX600-E5 (Ninja ZX-6) (1997)
ZX600-E6 (Ninja ZX-6) (1998)
ZX600-E7 (Ninja ZX-6) (1999)
ZX600-E8 (Ninja ZX-6) (2000)
ZX600-E9 (Ninja ZX-6) (2001)

The ZX-6 name is the US name for the old ZZR600.

FWIW The E10 model onwards has a different part number for the crankcase (hence there being less models listed above than the cylinder head model list).

If it helps I have the manual on CDROM.

Good luck with it.

Mick

[mouse_zzr600]

Thanks for that
I have done some research and found zx6 engines are not interchangable ( so i am told as the configuration is different).
IE the cam chain in the zzr is centralised where as the zx6 designated machine is side mounted.
Wondering if the engine mounting is the same and will it go in ?
Can any one help as Kawasaki have been unhelpfull in this area
Thanks again Mouse

[ty]

You need to be clear about the distinction between 'ZX6' and 'ZX6R'.
Your ZZR600 E7 is actually a ZX600-E7 in Mick's list above.

You're correct that the 'ZX6R' engine won't be interchangeable with yours, but you should find a fair amount of ZX6 candidates as that hasn't really changed for years - I think almost anything since '98 will suit.
Mick mentioned there are diffs since E10 - but if you source the whole thing, rather than parts, that won't matter I think.

As Mick said I think you have a valid grievance for the courts if you can't work it out amicably with the shop.

If you are unwilling to go that route then I suggest first trying to source another engine (the ZZR is a great bike), or if that fails and costs more than a couple of grand I'd part it out.

Good luck
ty

[robracer]

Sounds like the mechanic has stuffed up.
I had a simple engine rebuild on a Honda 750 4 engine I was running in an PC racing sidecar
We were qualifying a few days later at Oran Park when at the end of the straight 200 + km the throttle stays open
I pulled the stop lanyard & we sailed into the tire wall. The farker mechanic did the clearances too tight & the top of a valve sheared off & wedged itself in the carb butterfly effectively holding all the carbs open. Now to say we were fuming would be an understatement, I took the outfit back to the mechanic that arvo dumped it in his factory & told him to fix his fark up
He admitted liability & claimed it under insurance, everything from the crankcase up was destroyed including the brand new
Wisco kit I suggest get them to fix it at their cost .... the cam chain would not let go if fitted properly

[dave#3]

That's shit news mate. Maybe try getting in contact with Sharky - from memory he'd done some things with a zzr6 engine what shouldn't have been possible (or was it a zzr6 frame, I can't quite remember now). Aside from that, I guess all you can do is keep your eyes out for a used engine and do the swap - as you said, used engines often sit about the $1500 to $2000 mark - or buy a wrecked zzr6 and do the engine transplant.

[bishboy]

You could look into whether there is any statutory warranty (time period and/or km's) with the repairs done by the shop. If there is not or it has expired and you can't work out any agreement with the shop, consumers affairs in your state should be able to help regarding any case you may have against the shop.

[mike-s]

fuggsake 2500km isn't even a single oil change AFTER the cam chain has been done, so at most you should have only ever checked the oil levels a handful of times, perhaps ten times if you were particularly anal about these things. Short of gross incompetence when it was replaced, I still can't see htf the camchain would have let go anyway.

[seiko1]

You could look into whether there is any statutory warranty (time period and/or km's) with the repairs done by the shop. If there is not or it has expired and you can't work out any agreement with the shop, consumers affairs in your state should be able to help regarding any case you may have against the shop.

I think it's a standard 3 months (twelve weeks) warranty unless you can prove negligence.
It might cost you $80 or so to get a good Lawer to ring them and just make the threat.
It worked wonders for me with GE Finance one time

[mouse_zzr600]

Hi Me again
just a short note to say i have made the decision to replace the engine as i have found a very low k damaged bike ( only 19 after mine off the assy line with only 12650ks on the clock Genuine 1st time around with proof).
The orig failure was proven to be the fault of the chain and or fitment as one link end of the hyvo chain was not on a pin thus floating around and cutting the chain guides in half ( literaly ) once the chain got into the grove it flexed the chain sideways thus stretching it beyond service limits till it let go.
The shop has hinted at some responcability however only offerd a replacement chain and to fix it ( at my cost ) Screwed .
Cost effectiveness to take to court proved out of my reach so i have to suck it up and htfu. Cant say i am happy bout that situation.
Needless to say i have now procured the damaged bike and done the transplant and am back on the road again.
Have no choice but to chalk it up to experiance ( will do it my self next time ) thatway i have no-one to blame but myself.
So if after a service you guys have a new rattle DONT take it as their word that nothing is wrong its just ( insert own part name here ) bedding in. If an unusual noise is there now but wasn`t before Push the envolope and get answers or you to could be faced with a new engine or worse still a wrecked bike.
Thanks for letting me bend the ears
Regs Mouse

[ty]

Well glad to hear you're sorted - even if the shop got away with it.
Best to have a working bike than one off the road while lawyers fight it out.
My suggestion is find a better shop - there are good ones out there.
ty

[dave#3]

Name 'em and shame 'em Mouse.

[Ratmick]

Bastards, they need a good kuda'ing the pack of them .

We need an angry kuda smiley with backwards facing hooks on the fingers. And it needs to be red.

Mick

[mouse_zzr600]

Would love to name and shame however under advise from soliciter, i cant, so all i can say is if your in Victoria south, pm me before you get work done on yr bike and advise me of your chosen repairer and i will advise.
Regs Mouse

[mike-s]

Yup, the good old defamation thing. trouble for both yo & the Dave Army that look after/own this site.

Seen near the same thing happen on a pc forum with a vendor to avoid subforum with all kinds of horror stories. Went a bit wobbly when the guy sued the site owner for defamation and even though he was defending himself as he had no knowledge of the thread at that time he was still dragged through the shit for the whole thing.