To Premium or not to Premium ?

first time i read this thread, and you guys are talking about rotaries!

I had a rx2, two rx4's, and a rx7. not a problem with any of them, even the rx4 with an ex race engine in it. They're like any car, look after it well and it'll look after you.

But i've heard quite a few horror stories about optimax, two since i started my job, one the bike blew up and the other one the bike just conked out for no reason.. or the guy who bought a bike from us last year who's new dirt bike stopped working after he put optimax in it..
had a guy in the other day who asked me if he could put optimax in his scooter.. umm.. no mate..


Gizmo, mate, you really need to move where civilisation is

Maybe Optimax could be the problem?
I remember reading an article about the Team Suzuki/KTM??MX team & they were using Optimax in there 2 Strokes without ANY Problems?

Too many people blaming the wrong thing for there F&^K UP's I reckon.
I remember a few guys complaining about there YZ400/426/450's fouling plugs on the stuff & would never use it again.
What a bunch of Twats! It's a race bike & it needed tuning for the stuff!!!
If you want a PERFORMANCE engine to run properly you may have to Tune it!!!! Part of the package unfortunately!

Maybe Optimax could be the problem?
I remember reading an article about the Team Suzuki/KTM??MX team & they were using Optimax in there 2 Strokes without ANY Problems?

Too many people blaming the wrong thing for there F&^K UP's I reckon.
I remember a few guys complaining about there YZ400/426/450's fouling plugs on the stuff & would never use it again.
What a bunch of Twats! It's a race bike & it needed tuning for the stuff!!!
If you want a PERFORMANCE engine to run properly you may have to Tune it!!!! Part of the package unfortunately!

Optimess has a benzene content of 3.3%. It is used as an octane 'booster' because of the poorer quality of the base product in Optimess. BP98 uses less than 1% benzene.

Race engines do need to be tuned, but not street bikes every time they ride into a Shell garage ?? I don't need to tune my bike if I change from Vortex to BP to Mobil Premium..... As far as car engines running good on Optimess- thats a different kettle of fish altogether.

I have seen too many examples of Optimess and stuffed motors to think that it is a coincidence, but if it works well for your bike, then keep using it especially if it is the only 98 octane available where you live.

currently on the second tank of opticrap will be changing for the following reasons
1. idle speed has dropped
2. starting on full choke is ok but when reducing choke runs rough
3. power is still good when compleatly warm
4. bad smell from exhaust
5. Idle is uneven
nothing has been altered on the bike just changed petrol will try bp and after 2 tanks will post a report if there is any change
regards sulli

The old SUPER fuel was full of Methyl Benzene/Toluene as well!
I tells ya it's great stuff!
It was also the stuff the independent fuel servo's were mixing there fuel with & the REAL reason the Government was jumping up & down was the fact it was missing out on TAX DOLLARS as it wasn't taxed like fuel & in BIG quantities it was cheap!

Here we have people paying big dollars for the stuff @ Speed Shops & they could have bought the stuff premixed @ the local Independent fuel servo!!!

Tax dollars are always a good incentive for the Govt. to screw us !! Wish they had never taken away....................BP100 !!!! it was *Gold*

Better qualify one of my problems with Opticrap. Only 2 years ago, a close friend with a 1982 GSX1100 Katana, was riding down to Melbourne for a family gig. This bike has run like clockwork for years, and did so on the trip down to Melbourne, as per usual.

On the way back, he filled up with Optimax at the Albury Shell. By the time he got to Gundagai, it was running pretty crook. In fact so, crook, we had to come and collect him and the bike. Partial seizure on cyclinders 1,2 and 4, the ring lands were full of crap, and he needed a complete top-end rebuild to fix what had been until then a really good engine...........

sometimes you can get a dud batch of fuel, sometimes it has a high H2O content, but I have never seen anything like this.....maybe it was a one-off, who knows for sure. Neither of us, or anyone we ride with, has used Shell since. Its your bike and your call, but I absolutely loath the crap

cheerio

Tax dollars are always a good incentive for the Govt. to screw us !! Wish they had never taken away....................BP100 !!!! it was *Gold*

Mobil 100/130 ..was also worshipped in my day

On the way back, he filled up with Optimax at the Albury Shell. By the time he got to Gundagai, it was running pretty crook. In fact so, crook, we had to come and collect him and the bike. Partial seizure on cyclinders 1,2 and 4, the ring lands were full of crap, and he needed a complete top-end rebuild to fix what had been until then a really good engine...........

I used Opticrap on a carbed bike ..my GPX
I got less than 10k from the servo before the bike died
the end of the plugs were sorted like melted..covered in a silver glaze

I emptied the tank, bought new plugs and never used Opticrap again.
and you know what..I have not had a problem since
mind you, even Shell(Coles) ULP is ok... but the other stuff??




cheers

I use to run my ZX2 on Optimax, but I leaned the main jets out 1 size smaller & would have done the same on the pilot jets, but I was too lazy.
With the leaned out mains the ZX2 would rev out further in top gear & was great.

On the fuel contamination side of things, I have heard of servo's accidentally having Diesel put into the super/unleaded tanks & many engines going POP!
Also when they realised they were doing it, they just stopped & filled the balance with unleaded/super to hopefully blend it enough that there wouldn't be a problem.

I have been told that it only requires about 1% Diesel/Kerosene in super/unleaded to reduce the octane enough to cause severe engine destroying detonation in a petrol engine, so that could be the problem as well.

As for the water contamination, I have seen a servo washing there driveways out & where the fuel trucks gain access to the underground fuel tanks, they have been filled full of water & they just let it get into the tanks when they fill them up. It's all good in there eyes, as only small amount of water to HUGE amount of petrol.
But maybe if they dumped some metho in there as well they might not have a problem, but they don't!

The biggest problem I think is that they don't seem to Guarantee the fuel Quality, & how many $$$ would you have to go to prove that Shell Optimax for example wasn't up to spec? & or caused the engine failure.

Attachments

Mick's Skid on Optimax
Well I think it was?

Mick skid.jpg (86.72 KiB) Viewed 2544 times

gizmo

awesome photo
I luv LX hatchbacks... 'specially of the modified V8 kind

Yeah that's the mates 304 powered LX, think it's best is a 11.36@119.5mph?@ Willowbank.
He drove it from Roma(approx 450km's)dropped the pipes, bigger jets, fitted some soft compund retreads & away it went.

*snip*
As for the water contamination, I have seen a servo washing there driveways out & where the fuel trucks gain access to the underground fuel tanks, they have been filled full of water & they just let it get into the tanks when they fill them up. It's all good in there eyes, as only small amount of water to HUGE amount of petrol.
But maybe if they dumped some metho in there as well they might not have a problem, but they don't!

I had a job once installing underground fuel tanks and bowser pumps, we would fill them with water so they would not pop out of the ground. When the servo goes to use the tank they pump most of the water out and they can't get all of it. So there is always water in underground fuel tanks, it is a problem only when the tank gets low and the water floating on top gets sucked into the intake. The inlets to the pumps are set to leave a certain percentage of fluid in the tanks so they don't pop out as I mentioned before. If there is too much water then it will be pumped up and yes problems arise, usually it is not common as most servo's have filters, huge tanks and regular supply. This is why every morning you will see someone doing the dipstick measurement of all the tanks, it is a requirement anyway for EPA reg's to see if and how much fuel is escaping into the local watertable.The fuel fill boxes mostly have drains to drain water away, the cap that covers the tank fill point is also airtight and raised above the bottom of the box, air is vented up a pipe usually 15 meters away, they look like big toilet vent pipes and rise 5-6 meters. Most water in the tank evaporates in time, condensation has a small impact.
From memory, diesel tank fill points have a different fitting than petrol so I would imagine it hard for a professional tanker driver to do this.

Sorry about the long winded explanation, but I thought it needed to be cleared up.

for my zzr250, plain old bp unleaded is fine. i used to use shell, but after a batch of bad fuel (the bike wouldn't start), i tried bp and the bike starts better now. i don't notice much of a difference using bp ultimate, but i haven't fully tested it yet. i'm thinking my bike is quite happy with normal unleaded though.

today i put in premium from a freedom fuel station. it looks a funny colour... sort of greeny yellow. i've never seen that before. bike seems to run alright, but it needs a tiny bit of throttle to start.

f it looks a funny colour... sort of greeny yellow. i've never seen that before. bike seems to run alright, but it needs a tiny bit of throttle to start.

I think most premium is that colour, it makes it a bit easier to see the bottom of the tank as well.

*snip*
From memory, diesel tank fill points have a different fitting than petrol so I would imagine it hard for a professional tanker driver to do this.

Sorry about the long winded explanation, but I thought it needed to be cleared up.

My gf's dad & uncle were some of the poor unsuspecting motorists who filled there utes with the contaminated fuel & had engines go pop. The fuel depot owner admitted the mistake of mixing the fuels, but said there was no way a small amount of diesel would cause the problems.
Admittedly this was a few years ago & was here in the desert, but I have heard it happened again around here @ a flying insect urine depot in the last year or 2.

@ a flying insect urine depot .....

nice call . Not filling up at the ' last servo before the highway' is often thought of as an old wives tale - its not. The servos that get regular constant business always have regular constant emptying/filling of the u/ground tanks, so you should in theory have a fighting chance of not getting a bad batch of fuel. The little servos that don't get much business...... well, you get the drift.

Nice t'rana - those Hatchies were a real car, not like a WRX ( also known as the R-sole car, 'cause everyones got one !!)

If you want to see a nice colour, aviation fuel is a lovely shade of kerosene-blue mmmmm.