shims .. how often?

[javaman]

Further study... YES the gap actually closes, not widen .... boy have I got it sooooo wrong

Thanks Strika!!!

[goanna_38]

Followed the link out of curiosity to see what's involved in ZX6 valves. And to think I complain about what a pain in the arse it is doing the valves every 10000k's on my ZZR1100. I know for a fact it has never taken me 8 - 12 hours. And I don't have to completely dismantle the entire front of the bike. This is one of the reasons I decided to not get a ZX12. My mates Hayabusa runs virtually the same setup and it's nowhere near as complicated to do. What drugs were they on when they designed the ZX6?

[I-K]

Followed the link out of curiosity to see what's involved in ZX6 valves. And to think I complain about what a pain in the arse it is doing the valves every 10000k's on my ZZR1100. I know for a fact it has never taken me 8 - 12 hours.

The only way a valve clearance adjustment on a ZX6 is going to take 8 hours is either if you've never taken the bike apart before, or if you use the opportunity to thoroughly degrease and clean all the normally-hidden bits exposed by the disassembly.

My mates Hayabusa runs virtually the same setup and it's nowhere near as complicated to do.

That's because the Busa, like other GSX-R's of the time, and the ZX9, have no option but to stick the cylinder head straight up through the frame beams. It's easier to get to for plug and valve clearance services, but it makes the bike wide through the midsection, it compromises intake port angle and makes it necessary to find somewhere else to put the airbox and the fuel.

What drugs were they on when they designed the ZX6?

How often does a valve clearance check roll around? Even if you rack up massive kms, you're not going to be doing it more often than about 3 times a year, are you? And even then, it's not like any of the disassembly is actually fiddly. Bolts and screws come loose, bits fall off, exposing other bits. Big deal.

I mean...

1. Remove seats. 1 bolt, (10mm).
2. Remove mirrors. 4 nuts, (12mm).
3. Remove left side fairing. 3 Allen bolts (3mm), 4 Phillips head screws.
4. Remove right side fairing. 3 Allen bolts (3mm), 3 Phillips head screws.
5. Remove top fairing. 4 bolts (12mm), 1 electrical connector, 1 hose clamp.
5. Remove tank. 4 Allen bolts (6mm), 1 Phillips head screw, 1 hose clamp.
7. Remove Airbox. 9 bolts (10mm), 1 hose clamp.
8. Remove air intake ducts. No fasteners
9. Demount radiator. 5 bolts (10mm).
10. Demount carburettors (optional). 4 Allen bolts (2mm).
11. Remove cam cover and gasket. 6 bolts (12mm).

...for a grand total of,

8 Phillips head screws
15 10mm bolts
12 12mm bolts
4 2mm Allen bolts
6 3mm Allen bolts
4 6mm Allen bolts
3 hose clamps
1 electrical connector

53 fasteners of various types. Hardly intimidating.

[Smitty]

just to add to this....

been thru my library and...
the service manual for the 6 'J' series sez every 12000klicks
the service manuals for the 7s (exc the GeepeeX or F) say every 12000
(N series P series ) or 10,000 (H J Ks and Ls)
the service manuals for the 9 (B1 - B4) say 10,000 klicks
the manual for the 12 (A and B models) sez every 12,000

based on these..there is no way a valve clearance check should
be every 24,000
do it every 10,000 or 12, 000 even if no shim adjustment is needed

the GeePeeX??? screw and locknut ...NO shims

hth


cheers

[javaman]

Followed the link out of curiosity to see what's involved in ZX6 valves. And to think I complain about what a pain in the arse it is doing the valves every 10000k's on my ZZR1100. I know for a fact it has never taken me 8 - 12 hours.

The only way a valve clearance adjustment on a ZX6 is going to take 8 hours is either if you've never taken the bike apart before, or if you use the opportunity to thoroughly degrease and clean all the normally-hidden bits exposed by the disassembly.

My mates Hayabusa runs virtually the same setup and it's nowhere near as complicated to do.

That's because the Busa, like other GSX-R's of the time, and the ZX9, have no option but to stick the cylinder head straight up through the frame beams. It's easier to get to for plug and valve clearance services, but it makes the bike wide through the midsection, it compromises intake port angle and makes it necessary to find somewhere else to put the airbox and the fuel.

What drugs were they on when they designed the ZX6?

How often does a valve clearance check roll around? Even if you rack up massive kms, you're not going to be doing it more often than about 3 times a year, are you? And even then, it's not like any of the disassembly is actually fiddly. Bolts and screws come loose, bits fall off, exposing other bits. Big deal.

I mean...

1. Remove seats. 1 bolt, (10mm).
2. Remove mirrors. 4 nuts, (12mm).
3. Remove left side fairing. 3 Allen bolts (3mm), 4 Phillips head screws.
4. Remove right side fairing. 3 Allen bolts (3mm), 3 Phillips head screws.
5. Remove top fairing. 4 bolts (12mm), 1 electrical connector, 1 hose clamp.
5. Remove tank. 4 Allen bolts (6mm), 1 Phillips head screw, 1 hose clamp.
7. Remove Airbox. 9 bolts (10mm), 1 hose clamp.
8. Remove air intake ducts. No fasteners
9. Demount radiator. 5 bolts (10mm).
10. Demount carburettors (optional). 4 Allen bolts (2mm).
11. Remove cam cover and gasket. 6 bolts (12mm).

...for a grand total of,

8 Phillips head screws
15 10mm bolts
12 12mm bolts
4 2mm Allen bolts
6 3mm Allen bolts
4 6mm Allen bolts
3 hose clamps
1 electrical connector

53 fasteners of various types. Hardly intimidating.

Well that sounds mighty complex to me considering to adjust my car's valves:

Remove cam cover 4 screws (12mm)
Grand total of 4 screws

but I got to do it anyway so it will... I think the 8hrs taking account of going to to shop to get the new shim. This can't be pre-prepared as the current gap needs to be measured

[I-K]

been thru my library and...
the service manual for the 6 'J' series sez every 12000klicks

Yes. Every 12,000...

Here's how ot worked out for me and my J2...

~10,500km; almost all the walves were out, some by one, some by two shim sizes. I ended up having to buy 11 shims.
~24,600km; no change.
~38,000km; no change.
~49,000km; no change

The 60,000km service was due 5,000km ago. Somehow, I'm not berating myself too hard for letting it drag out this long.

[Maty10]

I should just drop into maty10's service center but cos it's a bit overdue I'd like to get it professionally done.

Feel free!! I have to do my mate's Gixxer in the next few weeks so you welcome to bring it over at the same time, might make things easier, being careful not mix and match of course. Three sets of hands will really cut the time down.

It's really not that complicated, certainly not worth $500 plus that a shop will charge.

[goanna_38]

Followed the link out of curiosity to see what's involved in ZX6 valves. And to think I complain about what a pain in the arse it is doing the valves every 10000k's on my ZZR1100. I know for a fact it has never taken me 8 - 12 hours.

The only way a valve clearance adjustment on a ZX6 is going to take 8 hours is either if you've never taken the bike apart before, or if you use the opportunity to thoroughly degrease and clean all the normally-hidden bits exposed by the disassembly.

My mates Hayabusa runs virtually the same setup and it's nowhere near as complicated to do.

That's because the Busa, like other GSX-R's of the time, and the ZX9, have no option but to stick the cylinder head straight up through the frame beams. It's easier to get to for plug and valve clearance services, but it makes the bike wide through the midsection, it compromises intake port angle and makes it necessary to find somewhere else to put the airbox and the fuel.

What drugs were they on when they designed the ZX6?

How often does a valve clearance check roll around? Even if you rack up massive kms, you're not going to be doing it more often than about 3 times a year, are you? And even then, it's not like any of the disassembly is actually fiddly. Bolts and screws come loose, bits fall off, exposing other bits. Big deal.

I mean...

1. Remove seats. 1 bolt, (10mm).
2. Remove mirrors. 4 nuts, (12mm).
3. Remove left side fairing. 3 Allen bolts (3mm), 4 Phillips head screws.
4. Remove right side fairing. 3 Allen bolts (3mm), 3 Phillips head screws.
5. Remove top fairing. 4 bolts (12mm), 1 electrical connector, 1 hose clamp.
5. Remove tank. 4 Allen bolts (6mm), 1 Phillips head screw, 1 hose clamp.
7. Remove Airbox. 9 bolts (10mm), 1 hose clamp.
8. Remove air intake ducts. No fasteners
9. Demount radiator. 5 bolts (10mm).
10. Demount carburettors (optional). 4 Allen bolts (2mm).
11. Remove cam cover and gasket. 6 bolts (12mm).

...for a grand total of,

8 Phillips head screws
15 10mm bolts
12 12mm bolts
4 2mm Allen bolts
6 3mm Allen bolts
4 6mm Allen bolts
3 hose clamps
1 electrical connector

53 fasteners of various types. Hardly intimidating.

Not the intimidation I was complaining about, just the timewasting crap. The more crap you have to remove and replace, the more room creeps in for errors (hmm, did I tighten up all those bolts?), or worse more room for a bike shop to make errors (at what they charge you'd think there was one mechanic and 3 quality control personnel supervising, and they still make mistakes). I actually do my valves about 3 times a year and occasionally look wistfully into the past at my old GPz900. Nowhere near as much hassle to do the valves as on the 11 and it, apparently, is nowhere near as complicated (fiddly and time consuming) as a ZX6.
Have you ever ridden a Hayabusa? For something with a compromised intake port angle they go like they've been fired out of a cannon. My ZZR11 goes hard but the mates Busa is just a disappearing taillight in front of me. Frame on a Busa is no more obtrusive from a riders viewpoint than the 11 either. Pity they're so ugly.